3 ms·

Binance will not only help the US government monitor the money flows (the argument of our book), but plausibly act act as a regulatory super-spreader, transmitt

Binance will not only help the US government monitor the money flows (the argument of our book), but plausibly act act as a regulatory super-spreader, transmitting “know your customer rules” across the ecoystem like an epidemiological contagion (the argument of an important academic article on ‘viral governance’ by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun). Or, people will flood out to someone who hasn't been hit by that "contagion", because the entire point is to have unregulated money.

mjr00 3y ago
> because the entire point is to have unregulated money. For some vanishingly small percentage of crypto-faithful, maybe. For the vast majority, the point is to turn (regulated) fiat money into more (regulated) fiat money. Or lose it all trying.
- jfengel 3y ago
  In order to make profit they need a draw. Subverting regulations is one of the few draws. So where the drug dealers go, the speculators will follow.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Chainalysis monitors all public chains for law enforcement and regulators. Monero, Zcash, and other privacy focused crypto can be squeezed out under money laundering, KYC, AML laws and regulations. Interestingly, violations of law have a permanent record on an immutable blockchain. You simply need someone technical to perform data analysis and hand it over to enforcement. TLDR there is always a throat to choke in meatspace. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- vlovich123 3y ago
  Don’t even need to be squeezed out. Here’s an attack on zcash: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf Most private crypto coins are private by declaration rather than robust mathematical proofs (often because proving the absence of side channels is very difficult)
dsugarman 3y ago
I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]
- kzrdude 3y ago
  There are fully anonymous transactions in some of the cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still popular.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    I think this fact points out the disparity between people using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for investment reasons. Most people don't care about the whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
  - anonfromsomewhe 3y ago
    Zcash is flawed lie. They are not fully anonymous or anything. There were several reports how to trace them.
    - some_furry 3y ago
      Can you link to one of them? All I can recall is "shielded isn't default" and "if you transact too quickly it's risky" from recent memory.
    - kzrdude 3y ago
      Could you elaborate on that? I wasn't able to confirm that, but I'm massively out of the loop too.
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    I’m not aware yet that any cryptocurrency has been proven fully impossible to deanonymize, especially if there’s any off ramps anywhere. For example: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf is for zcash and monero It’s possible that someone comes up with a robust mechanism but if you interact with any other coin (crypto or fiat) it can expose additional side channels that are impossible to close.
wslh 3y ago
> the argument of an important academic article on ‘viral governance’ by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun Great reference, I found it at: https://ens-paris-saclay.fr/sites/default/files/Laboratoires/IDHES/2023_05_23_Mallard-Sun-2022.pdf https://ens-paris-saclay.fr/sites/default/files/Laboratoires... Reading it right now.

mjr00 3y ago

> because the entire point is to have unregulated money. For some vanishingly small percentage of crypto-faithful, maybe. For the vast majority, the point is to turn (regulated) fiat money into more (regulated) fiat money. Or lose it all trying.

jfengel 3y ago
In order to make profit they need a draw. Subverting regulations is one of the few draws. So where the drug dealers go, the speculators will follow.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Chainalysis monitors all public chains for law enforcement and regulators. Monero, Zcash, and other privacy focused crypto can be squeezed out under money laundering, KYC, AML laws and regulations. Interestingly, violations of law have a permanent record on an immutable blockchain. You simply need someone technical to perform data analysis and hand it over to enforcement. TLDR there is always a throat to choke in meatspace. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
vlovich123 3y ago
Don’t even need to be squeezed out. Here’s an attack on zcash: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf Most private crypto coins are private by declaration rather than robust mathematical proofs (often because proving the absence of side channels is very difficult)

dsugarman 3y ago

I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money" and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]

kzrdude 3y ago
There are fully anonymous transactions in some of the cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still popular.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  I think this fact points out the disparity between people using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for investment reasons. Most people don't care about the whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
- anonfromsomewhe 3y ago
  Zcash is flawed lie. They are not fully anonymous or anything. There were several reports how to trace them.
  - some_furry 3y ago
    Can you link to one of them? All I can recall is "shielded isn't default" and "if you transact too quickly it's risky" from recent memory.
  - kzrdude 3y ago
    Could you elaborate on that? I wasn't able to confirm that, but I'm massively out of the loop too.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  I’m not aware yet that any cryptocurrency has been proven fully impossible to deanonymize, especially if there’s any off ramps anywhere. For example: https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/timings/paper.pdf is for zcash and monero It’s possible that someone comes up with a robust mechanism but if you interact with any other coin (crypto or fiat) it can expose additional side channels that are impossible to close.

wslh 3y ago

> the argument of an important academic article on ‘viral governance’ by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun Great reference, I found it at: https://ens-paris-saclay.fr/sites/default/files/Laboratoires/IDHES/2023_05_23_Mallard-Sun-2022.pdf https://ens-paris-saclay.fr/sites/default/files/Laboratoires... Reading it right now.