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Saudi spend a lot of effort promoting their Green program at COP28. They are aiming at 10 billion trees, if I remember correctly. That place is a desert for a

Saudi spend a lot of effort promoting their Green program at COP28. They are aiming at 10 billion trees, if I remember correctly. That place is a desert for a reason other than "nobody got around to planting trees". I really wonder what they need to do in order to start and maintain such a large forest. Will it ever become self sustainable?

bertil 3y ago
I don’t know about the specific local conditions there, but there have been more violent floods in Yemen and the UEA. Sudden precipitation is —oddly— somewhat common in Arabia and usually trickle through ergs, river beds empty most of the year, and sometimes captured by water walls, feeding oasis. The last few years have seen more violent incidents, overflowing ergs leading to floods, changes in temperature in the Indian Ocean, and more water in the monsoon-like pattern, I’m not sure. It might make sense to adapt to the changing climate than the one they’ve known until now. If tree-supported water basins can handle more water than ergs, that might be relevant terraforming. It’s the same in “Northern” Europe: Paris, Berlin, London, Amsterdam. Those cities had hot summers and needed fountains, but not so hot that they needed adaptations like shading all plazas with trees, having every building extend with parapets to shade the inside, etc. Paris has Venetian blinds (meant to let the air through but keep the sun out in summer), but they are not common in London, for instance. All those cities are now thinking of having gree water-culvert to complement storm drains. Changing what we think of as normal might be necessary.
peteradio 3y ago
Aren't there a lot of desert areas that were created by overgrazing goats i.e. not natural?
- throwaway5752 3y ago
  That is an oversimplification of an existing theory, it is not proven: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-tu.... Note: "It’s important to note that the green Sahara always would’ve turned back into a desert even without humans doing anything—that’s just how Earth’s orbit works, says geologist Jessica Tierney, an associate professor of geoscience at the University of Arizona. Moreover, according to Tierney, we don’t necessarily need humans to explain the abruptness of the transition from green to desert."
- asjvlise 3y ago
  What is natural anyway? Is it how a place would be if humans weren't in it? Is it how a place turns out after humans do what they do e.g. settle and rear goats? Or is it what humans would ideally do, but we work hard to resist because we imagine an ideal scenario e.g. desert is bad, forest is good. Shouldn't the outcomes of human uninhibited actions be natural e.g. overusing resources and pollution.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  yes
pvaldes 3y ago
> That place is a desert for a reason The same place was a rainforest once
- rabbits_2002 3y ago
  and most of the world was also a frozen wasteland what is your point
xjlin0 3y ago
Did they plant some mangrove which tolerates salt and grows at coast line?

bertil 3y ago

I don’t know about the specific local conditions there, but there have been more violent floods in Yemen and the UEA. Sudden precipitation is —oddly— somewhat common in Arabia and usually trickle through ergs, river beds empty most of the year, and sometimes captured by water walls, feeding oasis. The last few years have seen more violent incidents, overflowing ergs leading to floods, changes in temperature in the Indian Ocean, and more water in the monsoon-like pattern, I’m not sure. It might make sense to adapt to the changing climate than the one they’ve known until now. If tree-supported water basins can handle more water than ergs, that might be relevant terraforming. It’s the same in “Northern” Europe: Paris, Berlin, London, Amsterdam. Those cities had hot summers and needed fountains, but not so hot that they needed adaptations like shading all plazas with trees, having every building extend with parapets to shade the inside, etc. Paris has Venetian blinds (meant to let the air through but keep the sun out in summer), but they are not common in London, for instance. All those cities are now thinking of having gree water-culvert to complement storm drains. Changing what we think of as normal might be necessary.

peteradio 3y ago

Aren't there a lot of desert areas that were created by overgrazing goats i.e. not natural?

throwaway5752 3y ago
That is an oversimplification of an existing theory, it is not proven: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-tu.... Note: "It’s important to note that the green Sahara always would’ve turned back into a desert even without humans doing anything—that’s just how Earth’s orbit works, says geologist Jessica Tierney, an associate professor of geoscience at the University of Arizona. Moreover, according to Tierney, we don’t necessarily need humans to explain the abruptness of the transition from green to desert."
asjvlise 3y ago
What is natural anyway? Is it how a place would be if humans weren't in it? Is it how a place turns out after humans do what they do e.g. settle and rear goats? Or is it what humans would ideally do, but we work hard to resist because we imagine an ideal scenario e.g. desert is bad, forest is good. Shouldn't the outcomes of human uninhibited actions be natural e.g. overusing resources and pollution.
pvaldes 3y ago
yes

pvaldes 3y ago

> That place is a desert for a reason The same place was a rainforest once

rabbits_2002 3y ago
and most of the world was also a frozen wasteland what is your point

xjlin0 3y ago

Did they plant some mangrove which tolerates salt and grows at coast line?