4 ms·

Having done volunteer work with the homeless (and helping with these counts in years past), I think the broad term of "homeless" isn't all that useful. I encou

Having done volunteer work with the homeless (and helping with these counts in years past), I think the broad term of "homeless" isn't all that useful. I encountered so many different types of folks. Some were people down on their luck that needed help. Some had mental problems that (I'm guessing) can never really be fixed. Some had addictions. Some simply enjoyed being homeless. I think addressing the problem would need to address varying underlying causes. For instance, "just give them jobs" will work for some of these folks, but not for a lot of them.

542458 3y ago
I think there’s also a gradient to “not having a home” here that isn’t discussed. Does “homeless” describe somebody who is illegally squatting? Somebody who has lost their home and is crashing on friends couches? Youth who have a home but do not want to return to it? Somebody who stays in a shelter every night? The group I work with uses “underhoused” as the term, which I think better describes the situation.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 3y ago
  IIRC, the terms in the UK are "homeless" if you have no fixed abode and "sleeping rough" if you have no access to permanent shelter. If you're limited to couch surfing, that's the first but not the second.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Homelessness is well-defined by HUD and the definition has been the same for decades. The report discussed here almost certainly missed numerous homeless people because it is based on the point-in-time count, where local agencies go out in the field for one day and try to find homeless people, which overlooks some classes of homeless.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Some people need a hand to get back on their feet. Some people need a small, safe space just for them and their stuff (voluntary homelessness, broadly speaking; tiny homes or more dense concepts in urban areas work here), some people need to be committed (I know some folks like this both in a clinical setting, as well as a working farm in New England operated just for this need). These statements are the easy part, the hardest part is implementation. Affordable housing is of course key to broad housing security for those of sound mind and economics who desire to be housed.
- CubsFan1060 3y ago
  Oh, to be clear, I have no idea what a solution is. Some are straightforward (It was great to see when people finally got a job and got off the streets). But I'd say the majority of them are not easy solutions. Give a job to someone who is mentally not capable of ever holding a job, and there won't be any success.
  - arp242 3y ago
    The "give people free money and freedom to do with it whatever THEY think is necessary"-model seems promising.[1] Unfortunately it's also politically sensitive. [1]: https://www.jrf.org.uk/housing/providing-personalised-support-to-rough-sleepers https://www.jrf.org.uk/housing/providing-personalised-suppor...
- danieldevries 3y ago
  If only America was the richest country in the world... Homelessness for San Francisco was a mere PR problem during a state visit. Their is 0 appetite to tackle these social problems. Before implementation comes the actual political will to do something about it.
  - paiute 3y ago
    I just think there is no way to deal with it in a liberal society. I think most people want to help.
Podgajski 3y ago
I’ve never met someone who wanted to be homeless, I met people who didn’t want to live in substandard housing because homelessness was better, but I never met someone who wanted to be homeless. Give anyone of these homeless people $1 million house and I guarantee you they willwant to live in it.
- addicted 3y ago
  Yeah. The homeless in popular imagination that actually prefer living without a home are called #vanlife’rs. The one sees in cities are not those at all. Where they have access to shelters or even housing and they prefer to live as homeless instead is overwhelmingly because the housing and shelters are substandard, moldy, they’re exposed to risks of abuse including sexual abuse, they may not be allowed to bring their pets in, they may have addictions that they will be asked to wean off cold turkey (both understandable from the housing/shelter point of view, but it’s also obvious why someone addicted to a substance would not be able to do this), etc. In my interactions I was genuinely surprised by the really large percentage of homeless who preferred to live on the streets (even in the winter) over decent shelters without many of these risks, because of pets not being allowed. For many the companionship with the pets are quite literally keeping them sane, and there’s no way they’d give them up, and yet the vast majority of shelters have a no pet policy (again, understandable, but it still is a contributing problem). Now, there are definitely a few homeless who have mental health issues. And unfortunately, for obvious reasons those are the ones most people are likely to encounter (the sane homeless people prefer to stay out of the way and would prefer avoiding people altogether because of the shame and the judgment they’d encounter to begin with). So most people’s (including mine until I started volunteering with organizations that worked directly with homeless people) estimation of homeless people is based on this tiny minority at one extreme. Which is unfortunate because it makes passing actual useful policy that will help the homeless and reduce homelessness and all the issues that come with it, very difficult to bring into force.
  - rascul 3y ago
    > In my interactions I was genuinely surprised by the really large percentage of homeless who preferred to live on the streets (even in the winter) over decent shelters without many of these risks, because of pets not being allowed. For many the companionship with the pets are quite literally keeping them sane, and there’s no way they’d give them up, and yet the vast majority of shelters have a no pet policy (again, understandable, but it still is a contributing problem). The few shelters I've looked into have a huge list of rules that are strictly enforced which quickly turned me away. And they were in old, run down, dirty buildings. It almost seemed like they didn't want anybody to use the shelters, and very few appeared to be using them.
eek2121 3y ago
Re: mental health That is because mental/psychological healthcare is completely broken in the US. Im currently dealing with the system for a family member, and I am shocked at just how hard it is to get help. Ignore the financials, most psych hospitals won’t treat you and have zero interest in keeping you longer than absolutely necessary. The one my family member went to twice didn’t even set them up with a treatment plan or doctors/psychiatrists/psychologists when they were released.
- Podgajski 3y ago
  I’m homeless and have schizoaffective bipolar disorder. I haven’t been able to see a regular psychiatrist or therapist since Covid started. A lot of my therapist were taken over by people suffering from dealing with the lockdowns. should they have really been the priority? My homelessness exacerbates my mental illness, not only because of the stress of living out of a van but also the inability to have consistent healthcare being that I have to drive to warmer temperatures or cooler temperatures depending on the season. And the treatments for psychiatric diseases are still stuck back about 50 years. I’ve had to run my own genetics and do my own research to find out what would help me. I mostly done it no help to any doctor or physician or psychiatrist. Many people act like homeless people don’t want to get better, but I’m doing everything I can and no one is helping me absolutely no one. Psychiatrist who take Medicare have zero investigative initiative and psychiatric awards are for profit hotels for the mentally ill. If anyone has a positive view of this country and the goodness of the people of this country, I want to dissuade you of that notion. I am currently parking at Walmart in Palm Springs, California. The amount of wealth I see driving around me in vehicles alone could end homelessness in this country.
  - mhog_hn 3y ago
    Usually lurk here - I sincerely hope you will get to better places, how you handle your situation sounds admirable
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I’m always amazed at some of the responses here whenever the mentally ill are brought up. Suggesting that they should simply be hospitalized for their illness. That would be lovely, but speaking as someone who has been locked in a hospital before, it’s very expensive. When I’m between layoffs, I do have health insurance, but I don’t imagine that’s the case for the chronically ill. When I bring this up here, I’m told that these people just need to engage with some system and they’ll be well taken care of. I have seen no evidence of this myself; as the article and your experience would suggest, it’s just the opposite. The best someone can have going for them is a family member with money, but the mentally ill tend to burn their last bridges quite often.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bryanlarsen 3y ago
You have to be careful, because what you said is also the standard argument against action. You get people implying that if you can't help everyone you shouldn't help anyone, that more study is needed before doing anything, et cetera. No solution is perfect, but they are all better than nothing. And all homeless have something in common: they are homeless. Yes, most of them have other problems in addition, but once they have housing they have one less problem and the other problem is likely to be easier to treat or handle once they have their housing situation sorted out.
nothercastle 3y ago
Can’t upvote this enough. There are so many categories of homeless. It’s such a a board bucket that any policy that helps some may have a negative effect on others or is at least ineffective. To lump them all together makes the problem unsolvable

542458 3y ago

I think there’s also a gradient to “not having a home” here that isn’t discussed. Does “homeless” describe somebody who is illegally squatting? Somebody who has lost their home and is crashing on friends couches? Youth who have a home but do not want to return to it? Somebody who stays in a shelter every night? The group I work with uses “underhoused” as the term, which I think better describes the situation.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ben_w 3y ago
IIRC, the terms in the UK are "homeless" if you have no fixed abode and "sleeping rough" if you have no access to permanent shelter. If you're limited to couch surfing, that's the first but not the second.
jeffbee 3y ago
Homelessness is well-defined by HUD and the definition has been the same for decades. The report discussed here almost certainly missed numerous homeless people because it is based on the point-in-time count, where local agencies go out in the field for one day and try to find homeless people, which overlooks some classes of homeless.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Some people need a hand to get back on their feet. Some people need a small, safe space just for them and their stuff (voluntary homelessness, broadly speaking; tiny homes or more dense concepts in urban areas work here), some people need to be committed (I know some folks like this both in a clinical setting, as well as a working farm in New England operated just for this need). These statements are the easy part, the hardest part is implementation. Affordable housing is of course key to broad housing security for those of sound mind and economics who desire to be housed.

CubsFan1060 3y ago
Oh, to be clear, I have no idea what a solution is. Some are straightforward (It was great to see when people finally got a job and got off the streets). But I'd say the majority of them are not easy solutions. Give a job to someone who is mentally not capable of ever holding a job, and there won't be any success.
- arp242 3y ago
  The "give people free money and freedom to do with it whatever THEY think is necessary"-model seems promising.[1] Unfortunately it's also politically sensitive. [1]: https://www.jrf.org.uk/housing/providing-personalised-support-to-rough-sleepers https://www.jrf.org.uk/housing/providing-personalised-suppor...
danieldevries 3y ago
If only America was the richest country in the world... Homelessness for San Francisco was a mere PR problem during a state visit. Their is 0 appetite to tackle these social problems. Before implementation comes the actual political will to do something about it.
- paiute 3y ago
  I just think there is no way to deal with it in a liberal society. I think most people want to help.

Podgajski 3y ago

I’ve never met someone who wanted to be homeless, I met people who didn’t want to live in substandard housing because homelessness was better, but I never met someone who wanted to be homeless. Give anyone of these homeless people $1 million house and I guarantee you they willwant to live in it.

addicted 3y ago
Yeah. The homeless in popular imagination that actually prefer living without a home are called #vanlife’rs. The one sees in cities are not those at all. Where they have access to shelters or even housing and they prefer to live as homeless instead is overwhelmingly because the housing and shelters are substandard, moldy, they’re exposed to risks of abuse including sexual abuse, they may not be allowed to bring their pets in, they may have addictions that they will be asked to wean off cold turkey (both understandable from the housing/shelter point of view, but it’s also obvious why someone addicted to a substance would not be able to do this), etc. In my interactions I was genuinely surprised by the really large percentage of homeless who preferred to live on the streets (even in the winter) over decent shelters without many of these risks, because of pets not being allowed. For many the companionship with the pets are quite literally keeping them sane, and there’s no way they’d give them up, and yet the vast majority of shelters have a no pet policy (again, understandable, but it still is a contributing problem). Now, there are definitely a few homeless who have mental health issues. And unfortunately, for obvious reasons those are the ones most people are likely to encounter (the sane homeless people prefer to stay out of the way and would prefer avoiding people altogether because of the shame and the judgment they’d encounter to begin with). So most people’s (including mine until I started volunteering with organizations that worked directly with homeless people) estimation of homeless people is based on this tiny minority at one extreme. Which is unfortunate because it makes passing actual useful policy that will help the homeless and reduce homelessness and all the issues that come with it, very difficult to bring into force.
- rascul 3y ago
  > In my interactions I was genuinely surprised by the really large percentage of homeless who preferred to live on the streets (even in the winter) over decent shelters without many of these risks, because of pets not being allowed. For many the companionship with the pets are quite literally keeping them sane, and there’s no way they’d give them up, and yet the vast majority of shelters have a no pet policy (again, understandable, but it still is a contributing problem). The few shelters I've looked into have a huge list of rules that are strictly enforced which quickly turned me away. And they were in old, run down, dirty buildings. It almost seemed like they didn't want anybody to use the shelters, and very few appeared to be using them.

eek2121 3y ago

Re: mental health That is because mental/psychological healthcare is completely broken in the US. Im currently dealing with the system for a family member, and I am shocked at just how hard it is to get help. Ignore the financials, most psych hospitals won’t treat you and have zero interest in keeping you longer than absolutely necessary. The one my family member went to twice didn’t even set them up with a treatment plan or doctors/psychiatrists/psychologists when they were released.

Podgajski 3y ago
I’m homeless and have schizoaffective bipolar disorder. I haven’t been able to see a regular psychiatrist or therapist since Covid started. A lot of my therapist were taken over by people suffering from dealing with the lockdowns. should they have really been the priority? My homelessness exacerbates my mental illness, not only because of the stress of living out of a van but also the inability to have consistent healthcare being that I have to drive to warmer temperatures or cooler temperatures depending on the season. And the treatments for psychiatric diseases are still stuck back about 50 years. I’ve had to run my own genetics and do my own research to find out what would help me. I mostly done it no help to any doctor or physician or psychiatrist. Many people act like homeless people don’t want to get better, but I’m doing everything I can and no one is helping me absolutely no one. Psychiatrist who take Medicare have zero investigative initiative and psychiatric awards are for profit hotels for the mentally ill. If anyone has a positive view of this country and the goodness of the people of this country, I want to dissuade you of that notion. I am currently parking at Walmart in Palm Springs, California. The amount of wealth I see driving around me in vehicles alone could end homelessness in this country.
- mhog_hn 3y ago
  Usually lurk here - I sincerely hope you will get to better places, how you handle your situation sounds admirable
hotpotamus 3y ago
I’m always amazed at some of the responses here whenever the mentally ill are brought up. Suggesting that they should simply be hospitalized for their illness. That would be lovely, but speaking as someone who has been locked in a hospital before, it’s very expensive. When I’m between layoffs, I do have health insurance, but I don’t imagine that’s the case for the chronically ill. When I bring this up here, I’m told that these people just need to engage with some system and they’ll be well taken care of. I have seen no evidence of this myself; as the article and your experience would suggest, it’s just the opposite. The best someone can have going for them is a family member with money, but the mentally ill tend to burn their last bridges quite often.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bryanlarsen 3y ago

You have to be careful, because what you said is also the standard argument against action. You get people implying that if you can't help everyone you shouldn't help anyone, that more study is needed before doing anything, et cetera. No solution is perfect, but they are all better than nothing. And all homeless have something in common: they are homeless. Yes, most of them have other problems in addition, but once they have housing they have one less problem and the other problem is likely to be easier to treat or handle once they have their housing situation sorted out.

nothercastle 3y ago

Can’t upvote this enough. There are so many categories of homeless. It’s such a a board bucket that any policy that helps some may have a negative effect on others or is at least ineffective. To lump them all together makes the problem unsolvable