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Petrol fire is undoubtedly easier to come by and more dangerous in case of a crash. Touch interfaces aren't specifically tied to electric vehicles; it's a commo

by wazoox 3y ago

Petrol fire is undoubtedly easier to come by and more dangerous in case of a crash. Touch interfaces aren't specifically tied to electric vehicles; it's a common disease on all modern vehicles, fortunately on the decline. Environmentally, in countries with reasonably balanced (i.e. not China and Poland) power generation, EVs are *way better* than ICEs, without the slightest room for debate.

cpursley 3y ago
Petrol fire is much easier to extinguish than a battery fire. Yeah, touch interfaces is a disease on most modern vehicles (but especially electric). The infrastructure is the weakest link after the raw material chain required to build them. Oh, and recycling/disposal.
- wazoox 3y ago
  Petrol fire is much more common than battery fires, which are vanishingly rare. The oil infrastructure must be dismantled as fast as possible. Recycling of batteries is a chicken-egg problem : it's ramping up, but is necessarily lagging behind EV market penetration. It's an eminently solvable problem -- lead batteries are recycled way over 95% already. Remember : a vehicle lasts about 12 to 14 years. in 2035 (12 years), our fossil fuel consumption must have been reduced drastically compared to now. Buying any sort of ICE vehicle today is really, really hard to justify.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    >our fossil fuel consumption must have been reduced drastically compared to now. Tens of millions of people, and possibly more, see this argument as low credibility. Meaning, that the argument for EVs should probably be made according to their inherent merits and not climate arguments. Put another way, I'd be careful about tangling up the EV push in divisive climate politics. As one is arguably likely to taint EVs in the minds of the public, leading to ever greater pushback in regard to their adoption. Don't underestimate public response to being told that they have to change their lifestyle because of hotly debated assertions. No matter whether or not you think they should be debated.
  - oceanplexian 3y ago
    Petrol cars don’t burn your house down in the middle of the night while the car is turned off. This happened several times with the Bolt EV (A car I owned) until GM had to recall them all and eventually cancel the entire line and stop manufacturing it. These batteries are extremely dangerous and lithium fires can’t be extinguished like a gasoline fire since the reaction creates its own oxygen.
    - thebruce87m 3y ago
      > Petrol cars don’t burn your house down in the middle of the night while the car is turned off. Yes they do: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V346-3365.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V346-3365.PDF > Risk of underhood fire, including while the vehicle is parked and off.
    - neilalexander 3y ago
      Data from the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency recently found that ICE cars could be up to 20 times more likely to catch fire. https://www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyheter/2023/maj/brander-i-eltransportmedel-under-2022/?ref=warpnews.org https://www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyheter/2023/maj/brander-i-el... It also wasn't that long ago that a diesel car that was parked and switched off spontaneously caught fire and wrote off an entire multi-storey car park at Luton Airport, so there's an anecdote for all. That's not to say that problems with the Bolt weren't serious but they are not representative of the EV market as a whole.

by wazoox 3y ago

cpursley 3y ago

Petrol fire is much easier to extinguish than a battery fire. Yeah, touch interfaces is a disease on most modern vehicles (but especially electric). The infrastructure is the weakest link after the raw material chain required to build them. Oh, and recycling/disposal.

wazoox 3y ago
Petrol fire is much more common than battery fires, which are vanishingly rare. The oil infrastructure must be dismantled as fast as possible. Recycling of batteries is a chicken-egg problem : it's ramping up, but is necessarily lagging behind EV market penetration. It's an eminently solvable problem -- lead batteries are recycled way over 95% already. Remember : a vehicle lasts about 12 to 14 years. in 2035 (12 years), our fossil fuel consumption must have been reduced drastically compared to now. Buying any sort of ICE vehicle today is really, really hard to justify.
- mrangle 3y ago
  >our fossil fuel consumption must have been reduced drastically compared to now. Tens of millions of people, and possibly more, see this argument as low credibility. Meaning, that the argument for EVs should probably be made according to their inherent merits and not climate arguments. Put another way, I'd be careful about tangling up the EV push in divisive climate politics. As one is arguably likely to taint EVs in the minds of the public, leading to ever greater pushback in regard to their adoption. Don't underestimate public response to being told that they have to change their lifestyle because of hotly debated assertions. No matter whether or not you think they should be debated.
- oceanplexian 3y ago
  Petrol cars don’t burn your house down in the middle of the night while the car is turned off. This happened several times with the Bolt EV (A car I owned) until GM had to recall them all and eventually cancel the entire line and stop manufacturing it. These batteries are extremely dangerous and lithium fires can’t be extinguished like a gasoline fire since the reaction creates its own oxygen.
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    > Petrol cars don’t burn your house down in the middle of the night while the car is turned off. Yes they do: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V346-3365.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V346-3365.PDF > Risk of underhood fire, including while the vehicle is parked and off.
  - neilalexander 3y ago
    Data from the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency recently found that ICE cars could be up to 20 times more likely to catch fire. https://www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyheter/2023/maj/brander-i-eltransportmedel-under-2022/?ref=warpnews.org https://www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyheter/2023/maj/brander-i-el... It also wasn't that long ago that a diesel car that was parked and switched off spontaneously caught fire and wrote off an entire multi-storey car park at Luton Airport, so there's an anecdote for all. That's not to say that problems with the Bolt weren't serious but they are not representative of the EV market as a whole.