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I've always marveled at Apple. They have top notch Engineers working their hardware. They have fantastic Designers. But for some reason. Apple can't get a dece

I've always marveled at Apple. They have top notch Engineers working their hardware. They have fantastic Designers. But for some reason. Apple can't get a decent programmer. Their software sucks. Plain down right sucks. I love using apple hardware but I can't stand any software made by them. (See: Xcode, Itunes, Safari)

sebastianavina 14y ago
I guess they send all the talented one to the operating system division
- luriel 14y ago
  OS X is infamous for its bugs. See for example: http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/libev/ev.pod#OS_X_AND_DARWIN_BUGS http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/libev/ev.pod#OS_X_AN...
  - batista 14y ago
    I don't see anything "infamous" here. I see a page with some bugs that affect a specific library. It then goes on to mention bugs for other OSes that affect the same library.
batista 14y ago
>But for some reason. Apple can't get a decent programmer. Their software sucks. Plain down right sucks. I love using apple hardware but I can't stand any software made by them. (See: Xcode, Itunes, Safari) If you prefer Emacs/Vim, OK, but I can't see a much better tool than XCode for Objective-C (and arguably C/C++), plus UI building. Version 4 is buggy and crashes, but then again it's a mostly complete rewrite of the old XCode codebase. 4.3 is stabler than previous 4.x releases --it will get better. As for iTunes, I can't see any problem with it, besides handling a lot of different functionality in one app. Do you see many actual bugs in day to day use? Because using it for almost 10 years, I don't remember any. Safari, yes, tend to do some stupid things. Though, Chrome, to which I migrated is also based on Apple code for the core engine. Plus: the OS, Logic, Aperture, Pages, Keynote, all top notch apps.
- v0cab 14y ago
  I have seen many of the bugs in the article.
- Tomis 14y ago
  > I can't see a much better tool than XCode for Objective-C (and arguably C/C++) I don't know about Abjective-C but you must be joking about C/C++. Visual Studio (even the 2010 crap) is a state of the art IDE. Ever used it? If you're talking strictly about software for Mac then Visual Studio doesn't count, but XCode is still a crappy piece of software as described by so many horror stories. The fact that there aren't any better says more about the state of the platform than about XCode's quality.
- alexeiz 14y ago
  > is also based on Apple code for the core engine. Apple Safari uses WebKit - a free open source web browser engine. It's not Apple's code, it existed way before Apple got into browser business.
  - batista 14y ago
    >Apple Safari uses WebKit - a free open source web browser engine. It's not Apple's code, it existed way before Apple got into browser business. I used Konqueror long before Apple made Safari, so I am aware of the history. It's hardly the whole story though. Safari uses Webkit, but Apple made Webkit. Webkit did not exist before Apple got into the browsing business. What did exist was khtml made by the KDE project. That engine was a nice stable base that Apple used to build Webkit upon but it was lightyears behind the Webkit we know. Apple put TONS of work into Webkit and made it into one of the rendering engines that it is today, long before even Google got involved. Most of Webkit buy the time was Apple's code, including tons of bugfixes, huge performance improvements, all the HTML5 support (heck Canvas is Apple's invention, before it become a standard), css tranformations and animation, and the all-important Javascript engine, which was the first Javascript engine to kick of the speedy javascript JIT race (Firefox followed suit and then come V8).
alexeiz 14y ago
I'll take a wild guess. The reason can be Objective C. The language and its framework is fully dynamic. Your program can compile, but without extensive testing you won't know if it works. Checks that statically typed languages do at compile time have to be done by runtime tests in dynamic languages such as Objective C. And Apple doesn't have the ability to do enough testing for their products to ensure every single feature is bug free.

sebastianavina 14y ago

I guess they send all the talented one to the operating system division

luriel 14y ago
OS X is infamous for its bugs. See for example: http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/libev/ev.pod#OS_X_AND_DARWIN_BUGS http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/libev/ev.pod#OS_X_AN...
- batista 14y ago
  I don't see anything "infamous" here. I see a page with some bugs that affect a specific library. It then goes on to mention bugs for other OSes that affect the same library.

batista 14y ago

>But for some reason. Apple can't get a decent programmer. Their software sucks. Plain down right sucks. I love using apple hardware but I can't stand any software made by them. (See: Xcode, Itunes, Safari) If you prefer Emacs/Vim, OK, but I can't see a much better tool than XCode for Objective-C (and arguably C/C++), plus UI building. Version 4 is buggy and crashes, but then again it's a mostly complete rewrite of the old XCode codebase. 4.3 is stabler than previous 4.x releases --it will get better. As for iTunes, I can't see any problem with it, besides handling a lot of different functionality in one app. Do you see many actual bugs in day to day use? Because using it for almost 10 years, I don't remember any. Safari, yes, tend to do some stupid things. Though, Chrome, to which I migrated is also based on Apple code for the core engine. Plus: the OS, Logic, Aperture, Pages, Keynote, all top notch apps.

v0cab 14y ago
I have seen many of the bugs in the article.
Tomis 14y ago
> I can't see a much better tool than XCode for Objective-C (and arguably C/C++) I don't know about Abjective-C but you must be joking about C/C++. Visual Studio (even the 2010 crap) is a state of the art IDE. Ever used it? If you're talking strictly about software for Mac then Visual Studio doesn't count, but XCode is still a crappy piece of software as described by so many horror stories. The fact that there aren't any better says more about the state of the platform than about XCode's quality.
alexeiz 14y ago
> is also based on Apple code for the core engine. Apple Safari uses WebKit - a free open source web browser engine. It's not Apple's code, it existed way before Apple got into browser business.
- batista 14y ago
  >Apple Safari uses WebKit - a free open source web browser engine. It's not Apple's code, it existed way before Apple got into browser business. I used Konqueror long before Apple made Safari, so I am aware of the history. It's hardly the whole story though. Safari uses Webkit, but Apple made Webkit. Webkit did not exist before Apple got into the browsing business. What did exist was khtml made by the KDE project. That engine was a nice stable base that Apple used to build Webkit upon but it was lightyears behind the Webkit we know. Apple put TONS of work into Webkit and made it into one of the rendering engines that it is today, long before even Google got involved. Most of Webkit buy the time was Apple's code, including tons of bugfixes, huge performance improvements, all the HTML5 support (heck Canvas is Apple's invention, before it become a standard), css tranformations and animation, and the all-important Javascript engine, which was the first Javascript engine to kick of the speedy javascript JIT race (Firefox followed suit and then come V8).

alexeiz 14y ago

I'll take a wild guess. The reason can be Objective C. The language and its framework is fully dynamic. Your program can compile, but without extensive testing you won't know if it works. Checks that statically typed languages do at compile time have to be done by runtime tests in dynamic languages such as Objective C. And Apple doesn't have the ability to do enough testing for their products to ensure every single feature is bug free.