4 ms·

I always wonder what happens if you unlock with a code that switched profiles and encrypted the other profile.

TacticalCoder 3y ago
That'd be some form of "plausible deniability" (although the term has a lot of different meanings depending on the context). I know it exists for certain cryptocurrencies hardware wallets: they can be setup (but are not required to) so that one PIN unlocks the real wallet and another PIN unlocks a decoy wallet, which only has some coins. P.S: people are probably going to point out the $5 wrench attack though
- fastball 3y ago
  Isn't that the benefit of such a scheme? You ask for my password, I say no, you hit me with a $5 wrench, I say no. You keep hitting me, I input the decoy password and you think that is all the crypto (or content or whatever) I have. $5 wrench attack works on known unknowns, but not well on unknown unknowns.
  - ljm 3y ago
    If your adversary is the US intelligence machine then you’re already presumed to be guilty and a fail safe on your phone will achieve nothing. People were sent to Guantanamo bay for much less.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      You’re so cynical. And by cynical, I mean absolutely right.
  - plorg 3y ago
    If they threaten to beat you with a $5 wrench and you refuse and refuse and refuse and eventually cave and unlock the wallet with $10 of Bitcoin they're going to hit you with a wrench because you wouldn't resist so hard over so little and you're obviously trying to be clever.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      That’s why you don’t have a decoy profile, but a real alternative. Maybe they can then steal 30% of your wealth and not all of it.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    As long as a bad actor is aware of the possibility of decoy passwords, they have no incentive to stop hitting you with that $5 wrench no matter what you say.
V__ 3y ago
I thought about that and could see two possible problems: What about notifications on the lock screen, how to plausibly handle those with a fake/2nd profile? Could that be seen as willfully misleading or hiding evidence?
deleted 3y ago
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Uehreka 3y ago
Generally speaking, if you non-cooperate with the police that’s one class of offense, but if you lie to the police (that’s what this would be seen as) and they catch you it’s a whole ‘nother level of offense. In general, if you’re thinking about interactions with the police and you have an idea that feels “clever”, it is a bad idea.
- cynicalsecurity 3y ago
  You have the right to remain silent. Non-cooperation is not an offence.
  - nabakin 3y ago
    Resisting arrest is both non-cooperation and an offense so idk where you're getting that from.
    - jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
      you can be non-cooperative without meeting the bar for resisting arrest though, for instance if you refuse to incriminate yourself
      - filoeleven 3y ago
        People are consistently arrested and/or charged for resisting arrest for not identifying themselves in states that do not have “stop and ID” laws. Even if you know to the letter what your state law requires, the police often don’t. If you take the arrest and sit in jail for 2-12 hours, you can fight it later in court. Somehow, this is a luxury for most people in the US.
      - spiritplumber 3y ago
        "You were rude to me earlier, so I don't want to talk to you" may get you beaten up but won't get you in further legal trouble. If it comes up at trial, you simply explain that the officer was rude to you, so you didn't want to talk to them, which caused them to be even more rude to you, which confirmed your decision to not talk to them.
deleted 3y ago
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runlevel1 3y ago
Don't get caught doing it. I seem to recall that being one of the few times in a criminal trial where a jury can be instructed that they may make an adverse inference. (IANAL)

That'd be some form of "plausible deniability" (although the term has a lot of different meanings depending on the context). I know it exists for certain cryptocurrencies hardware wallets: they can be setup (but are not required to) so that one PIN unlocks the real wallet and another PIN unlocks a decoy wallet, which only has some coins. P.S: people are probably going to point out the $5 wrench attack though

fastball 3y ago
Isn't that the benefit of such a scheme? You ask for my password, I say no, you hit me with a $5 wrench, I say no. You keep hitting me, I input the decoy password and you think that is all the crypto (or content or whatever) I have. $5 wrench attack works on known unknowns, but not well on unknown unknowns.
- ljm 3y ago
  If your adversary is the US intelligence machine then you’re already presumed to be guilty and a fail safe on your phone will achieve nothing. People were sent to Guantanamo bay for much less.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    You’re so cynical. And by cynical, I mean absolutely right.
- plorg 3y ago
  If they threaten to beat you with a $5 wrench and you refuse and refuse and refuse and eventually cave and unlock the wallet with $10 of Bitcoin they're going to hit you with a wrench because you wouldn't resist so hard over so little and you're obviously trying to be clever.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    That’s why you don’t have a decoy profile, but a real alternative. Maybe they can then steal 30% of your wealth and not all of it.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  As long as a bad actor is aware of the possibility of decoy passwords, they have no incentive to stop hitting you with that $5 wrench no matter what you say.

V__ 3y ago

I thought about that and could see two possible problems: What about notifications on the lock screen, how to plausibly handle those with a fake/2nd profile? Could that be seen as willfully misleading or hiding evidence?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Uehreka 3y ago

Generally speaking, if you non-cooperate with the police that’s one class of offense, but if you lie to the police (that’s what this would be seen as) and they catch you it’s a whole ‘nother level of offense. In general, if you’re thinking about interactions with the police and you have an idea that feels “clever”, it is a bad idea.

cynicalsecurity 3y ago
You have the right to remain silent. Non-cooperation is not an offence.
- nabakin 3y ago
  Resisting arrest is both non-cooperation and an offense so idk where you're getting that from.
  - jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
    you can be non-cooperative without meeting the bar for resisting arrest though, for instance if you refuse to incriminate yourself
    - filoeleven 3y ago
      People are consistently arrested and/or charged for resisting arrest for not identifying themselves in states that do not have “stop and ID” laws. Even if you know to the letter what your state law requires, the police often don’t. If you take the arrest and sit in jail for 2-12 hours, you can fight it later in court. Somehow, this is a luxury for most people in the US.
    - spiritplumber 3y ago
      "You were rude to me earlier, so I don't want to talk to you" may get you beaten up but won't get you in further legal trouble. If it comes up at trial, you simply explain that the officer was rude to you, so you didn't want to talk to them, which caused them to be even more rude to you, which confirmed your decision to not talk to them.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

runlevel1 3y ago

Don't get caught doing it. I seem to recall that being one of the few times in a criminal trial where a jury can be instructed that they may make an adverse inference. (IANAL)