3 ms·

Also fourth amendment covers unreasonable searches.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
What is unreasonable about a warrant? Where did this adversarial attitude to law enforcement come from? The whole reason we have a rich and functioning society is thanks to law.
- asveikau 3y ago
  > Where did this adversarial attitude to law enforcement come from? They screw up very frequently. Sometimes maliciously, sometimes through incompetence, sometimes both. I can't convey the depth of this in a small comment box, but there's abundant evidence around on this topic if you care to look. Overall, even when you're talking about legitimately designated authority given to a person ... it's VERRRY easy for a human being to screw up and get it wrong, and it has huge impact over the lives of their targets. Needs to be approached by the authorities with extreme caution. In practice, probably many of them aren't aware of the weight of their actions, or don't care.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    > They screw up very frequently Do you have a source for that? Frequently is a relative term. 1,000 fuck-ups can be a lot or a little depending on the total number of interactions we are talking about.
    - asveikau 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        If you make a claim it's not on everyone else to go find support for your argument.
        asveikau 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - buzer 3y ago
      While I don't know how many interactions there has been, according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/police-misconduct-repeated-settlements/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20... for example New York has had over 10000 officers involved in cases where they settled ("46% by officers named in multiple payments" "more than 5,000 officers were named in two or more claims") across 10 years. They seem to currently have 36000 officers, I don't know how long they stay on the job on average or how the numbers have fluctuated over the years, but even if it's just 1 year and their size hasn't changed that would mean about 2.8% of police force in NYC was involved in misconduct that resulted in settlement. These don't include number of cases where legal action wasn't taken or which got thrown out due to qualified immunity (these are somewhat related, if case is unlikely to get past qualified immunity it's quite unlikely legal action will be taken). And probably cases which actually went to trial as it seems to focus on settlements. Additionally there is for example https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/cop-out-analyzing-20-years-records-proving-impunity https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/cop-out-analyzing-20-y... which covers 2000-2020 misconduct complaints. According to it disciplinary actions were taken 4283 times, meaning that even if conduct was enough to reach settlement it doesn't necessarily mean it results in any actions taken against the officer.

What is unreasonable about a warrant? Where did this adversarial attitude to law enforcement come from? The whole reason we have a rich and functioning society is thanks to law.

asveikau 3y ago
> Where did this adversarial attitude to law enforcement come from? They screw up very frequently. Sometimes maliciously, sometimes through incompetence, sometimes both. I can't convey the depth of this in a small comment box, but there's abundant evidence around on this topic if you care to look. Overall, even when you're talking about legitimately designated authority given to a person ... it's VERRRY easy for a human being to screw up and get it wrong, and it has huge impact over the lives of their targets. Needs to be approached by the authorities with extreme caution. In practice, probably many of them aren't aware of the weight of their actions, or don't care.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  > They screw up very frequently Do you have a source for that? Frequently is a relative term. 1,000 fuck-ups can be a lot or a little depending on the total number of interactions we are talking about.
  - asveikau 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      If you make a claim it's not on everyone else to go find support for your argument.
      - asveikau 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - buzer 3y ago
    While I don't know how many interactions there has been, according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/police-misconduct-repeated-settlements/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20... for example New York has had over 10000 officers involved in cases where they settled ("46% by officers named in multiple payments" "more than 5,000 officers were named in two or more claims") across 10 years. They seem to currently have 36000 officers, I don't know how long they stay on the job on average or how the numbers have fluctuated over the years, but even if it's just 1 year and their size hasn't changed that would mean about 2.8% of police force in NYC was involved in misconduct that resulted in settlement. These don't include number of cases where legal action wasn't taken or which got thrown out due to qualified immunity (these are somewhat related, if case is unlikely to get past qualified immunity it's quite unlikely legal action will be taken). And probably cases which actually went to trial as it seems to focus on settlements. Additionally there is for example https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/cop-out-analyzing-20-years-records-proving-impunity https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/cop-out-analyzing-20-y... which covers 2000-2020 misconduct complaints. According to it disciplinary actions were taken 4283 times, meaning that even if conduct was enough to reach settlement it doesn't necessarily mean it results in any actions taken against the officer.