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Neighborhoods Propose Printing Their Own Currency To Encourage Local Shopping
- petercooper 18y agoThere's been a highish profile attempt in a town called Lewes in the UK: http://thelewespound.org/ http://thelewespound.org/ The problem is that the currency has become a collectable item, so people have been buying the currency (even on eBay) and just holding on to it as a memento.
- callmeed 18y agoThis sounds really silly ... mainly because people are using cash less and less every year to make purchases. They use credit/debit cards more than cash. On the other hand, I think it's important to support local businesses (when they deserve it) and the idea of a co-op of local businesses sounds like a good idea. In fact, I think there could be a startup idea in there. Something like: 1. A business creates a co-op group online and other local businesses can join. 2. Consumers can go to the group's page online and purchase a gift certificate/voucher that gives them $1.10 credit on the dollar. 3. Consumer prints it out (has a unique code on it) and can use it at any of the member stores 4. Member store would just need internet access to enter the code and debit the voucher and could transfer their money out later Thoughts?
- drwh0 18y agomainly because people are using cash less and less every year to make purchases. They use credit/debit cards more than cash credit cards are cash...someone else's cash (namely a bank) that is being loaned to the card user. nonetheless, the transaction is in the local currency at the point of purchase and paid back in the local currency of the bank and user
- callmeed 18y agoI was referring to people actually carrying paper cash on their persons and using it for purchases.
- jerf 18y ago"This sounds really silly ... mainly because people are using cash less and less every year to make purchases. They use credit/debit cards more than cash." Hmmmm. Assuming each store has a wireless internet connection available to them (possibly at the cost of a wireless router), using off-the-shelf hardware for magnetic cards and an embedded system, a server on the internet, and some programming time, how much money would it take to set up an alternate local currency with full plastic card support? Not much. Probably still too much. But not much, and the thing that's really expensive initially, the custom programming, can be re-used well. The custom programming could do some clever stuff, too; automatic backing to a standard credit card? And you'll need full transaction capabilities; I need to be able to send some other user the money for not much extra cost. I don't think full plastic card support is anywhere near out of the question. In fact, this is far more practical than it was in the 1930s... if it doesn't happen this recession, I wouldn't be surprised it does in the next one...(!)
- drwh0 18y agohow much money would it take to set up an alternate local currency with full plastic card support? you need someone with a brain to regulate the amount of currency in the system. how many FooDollars will exist at once? this has been tried. years ago, a neighborhood tried to set up a "chit" system for getting babysitters. because they had no idea how many chits to print up, they just printed up as many as anyone would ever want...in the end they just created their own hyperinflation.
- johnrob 18y agoWhat if walmart accepts the currency?
- drwh0 18y agoonly problem with this is that it is illegal a business can reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, but in the US they can't tell you that you can't use US dollars
- Zaak 18y agoThey're not saying you can't use US dollars, just that you get a bonus for using the local currency. http://www.ithacahours.com/ http://www.ithacahours.com/
- lliiffee 18y agoAre you sure about that? I often used to tell retailers that they "had" to accept, say, 2 dollar bills or whatever because currency says "legal tender for all debts public or private". I found out some years later that this is quite literal. If I owe you money and I want to pay you in US currency-- that is, I want to use the money to pay off a debt-- you are legally obligated to accept it. However, if, say, you offer to sell me a hamburger, but refuse to take anything but 5$ bills, that is okay. (Unless you sell the hamburgers on credit...)
- callmeed 18y agoThat sounds about right ... I've seen plenty of stores that don't accept bills over $20
- bprater 18y agoDoes anyone know is this is constitutionally legal?
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- chaostheory 18y agoI believe it is, but that doesn't mean the Feds won't seize it. To avoid the possibility, they should just call it gift certificates or something similar.
- stcredzero 18y agoBetter yet, just have multiple independent parties verifying each other, maintaining servers overseas, and make all transactions electronic.
- stcredzero 18y agoBetter yet, just have multiple independent parties verifying each other, maintaining servers overseas, and make all transactions electronic.
- smanek 18y agoof course it is - anyone can print currency. You just can't claim that your currency is legal tender for any debts or try to pay your federal taxes with it. Most retail stores offer gift certificates or store currency (e.g., Toys R Us Dollars). Article 1 Section 8 grants congress the right to coin money, not to prevent others from doing so.
- eru 18y agoAt least in Germany printing your own money is in fact illegal. (Even if it does not claim to be legal tender.) Gift certificates are OK, though.
- ojbyrne 18y agoSounds like a larger scale version of Smoot-Hawley. Such perfect timing!
- mattmaroon 18y agoIthaca New York has been doing this for a while. They're trivially counterfeitable, as you might expect, and the IRS considers much of the activity tax-evasion (and rightly so) though to my knowledge nobody has yet been busted for them. Technically people are supposed to claim them and pay taxes (and many do) but there's a lot of nonpayment going on too and it's very hard to trace.
- tdupree 18y agoIt looks like the Berkshires region of Massachusetts has been doing this for a while too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkshares http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkshares
- mattmaroon 18y agoThose at least look a lot more professional. The Ithaca Hours I saw (I was there maybe 5 years ago) looked like someone made them using colored paper and a copy machine. They had serial numbers, but as far as I know there was no way for a merchant or individual to verify those at the time of transaction, so they were useless except maybe after the fact (at which point it would still be hard to tell which was an original and which a fake).
- kalvin 18y agoSounds like time banks. http://www.timebanks.org/ http://www.timebanks.org/ "For every hour you spend doing something for someone in your community, you earn one Time Dollar. Then you have a Time Dollar to spend on having someone do something for you. It's that simple. Yet it also has profound effects. Time Banks change neighborhoods and whole communities. Time Banking is a social change movement in 22 countries and six continents."
- DaniFong 18y agoTimebanking is a great concept. However, amazingly, the IRS also considers 'time banking' tax evasion. Apparently, if someone does something for you as a favor, you're supposed to log it as 'income' with wages charged at 'fair-market-price'!
- jgrahamc 18y agoIt would appear (IANAL) that time banking could be considered a form of bartering which is covered by the IRS here: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html "The fair market value of goods and services exchanged must be included in the income of both parties."
- stcredzero 18y agoA free forum that just happened to have features that made it a good ad-hoc barter network would be popular.
- JulianMorrison 18y agoHow many times will people try variants of autarky before they learn?
- jeeringmole 18y agoI've always been fond of Salt Spring Dollars (http://www.saltspringdollars.com/ http://www.saltspringdollars.com/).