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Does anyone have any resources for stopping unions from being formed? I've started taking steps to join the "Union" at my FAANG, in hopes of sabotaging it. I

Does anyone have any resources for stopping unions from being formed? I've started taking steps to join the "Union" at my FAANG, in hopes of sabotaging it. I can't think of anything worse for software developers than having some politically motivated organization to deal with in addition to management. You can see how well unions have gone for software engineers in the past, (Boeing is one example that has a strong union) and compare it to the working conditions of non union places. I understand it's 'en vogue' to support unions as a display of political affiliation, but the evidence is quite strong that it's bad for software engineers.

ilikehurdles 3y ago
I could see value in unions in some industries, but I would actively fight against one as a software engineer. I completely agree with the rest of your comment, this has become a new virtue signal, and a way for the worst among us to leech away value and hold us back. But I doubt you’ll get any advice for stopping it here. hn has turned into a midwit reddit when it comes discussion quality. I assume you should be allowed to continue working without joining the union or paying their dues.
pxc 3y ago
What are the problems at Boeing which you see as union-related?
ath3nd 3y ago
How is it bad to have job security and collective bargaining rights? > I can't think of anything worse for software developers than having some politically motivated organization Unions are not politically motivated. They are a social collective response from workers to counteract the disproportionate power imbalance between employees and corporations. All great advancements in worker rights were done by some kind of collective organized pressure from workers vs employers. > Does anyone have any resources for stopping unions from being formed? Your servility wouldn't help you a thing if your employer decides to go through another round of layoffs. You are just a disposable cog in the machine for them. You could be next, and yet you are trying to disband the only group of people that are incentivised to help you: your fellow workers. It's also within workers full rights to unionize, this is something that your predecessors fought tooth and nail to obtain. Shame on you!
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  >How is it bad to have job security and collective bargaining rights? Unions provide job security for low performers, but do not protect against layoffs. You can check and see that plenty of people were laid off by the large tech companies all across the world, many of which who were in strong unions. >All great advancements in worker rights were done by some kind of collective organized pressure from workers vs employers. I can think of plenty of things that weren't because of unions. Stock options and RSUs have literally changed millions of engineers lives for the better, that was done because of the free market, not unions. >You are just a disposable cog in the machine for them And yet FAANG companies have had very generous severance packages, despite not having unions. >yet you are trying to disband the only group of people that are incentivised to help you No, they're only incentivized to help me when I am helping them. If I decide not to be in the union, that same group are going to work against me to get me fired or make me literally unhirable (by not being in the union). That's what you're not understanding, there is a cost. The cost is that the union decides who is in the union, and tries to LIMIT your ability to get work if you don't go along with what they want! That's why I'm going to do my best to ruin their chances of forming.
  - ath3nd 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - VirusNewbie 3y ago
      > I am talking to a mid 20's conservative childless male from the US who recently managed to join FAANG (congratulations). I'm in my early 40s, coding professionally since I was a teen, so over 20 YOE, lived through multiple downturns. Didn't vote conservative at all last election. I have a child, and have extensive experience in both big companies and small startups. >And I can guarantee you, your FAANG is just waiting to replace you with a cheaper, younger and more malleable version of yourself, ready to hustle for less money and put more hours in. I mean, they're welcome to, but they could have hired someone for far far cheaper than me, and they didn't. What you might be thinking of is Boeing, the place with an engineering union. Why don't you talk about how it's better to go work there? I think it's likely you're a lot less experienced than I am in tech, and once you get some more skill and experience you'l understand what the rest of us are talking about.

ilikehurdles 3y ago

I could see value in unions in some industries, but I would actively fight against one as a software engineer. I completely agree with the rest of your comment, this has become a new virtue signal, and a way for the worst among us to leech away value and hold us back. But I doubt you’ll get any advice for stopping it here. hn has turned into a midwit reddit when it comes discussion quality. I assume you should be allowed to continue working without joining the union or paying their dues.

pxc 3y ago

What are the problems at Boeing which you see as union-related?

ath3nd 3y ago

How is it bad to have job security and collective bargaining rights? > I can't think of anything worse for software developers than having some politically motivated organization Unions are not politically motivated. They are a social collective response from workers to counteract the disproportionate power imbalance between employees and corporations. All great advancements in worker rights were done by some kind of collective organized pressure from workers vs employers. > Does anyone have any resources for stopping unions from being formed? Your servility wouldn't help you a thing if your employer decides to go through another round of layoffs. You are just a disposable cog in the machine for them. You could be next, and yet you are trying to disband the only group of people that are incentivised to help you: your fellow workers. It's also within workers full rights to unionize, this is something that your predecessors fought tooth and nail to obtain. Shame on you!

VirusNewbie 3y ago
>How is it bad to have job security and collective bargaining rights? Unions provide job security for low performers, but do not protect against layoffs. You can check and see that plenty of people were laid off by the large tech companies all across the world, many of which who were in strong unions. >All great advancements in worker rights were done by some kind of collective organized pressure from workers vs employers. I can think of plenty of things that weren't because of unions. Stock options and RSUs have literally changed millions of engineers lives for the better, that was done because of the free market, not unions. >You are just a disposable cog in the machine for them And yet FAANG companies have had very generous severance packages, despite not having unions. >yet you are trying to disband the only group of people that are incentivised to help you No, they're only incentivized to help me when I am helping them. If I decide not to be in the union, that same group are going to work against me to get me fired or make me literally unhirable (by not being in the union). That's what you're not understanding, there is a cost. The cost is that the union decides who is in the union, and tries to LIMIT your ability to get work if you don't go along with what they want! That's why I'm going to do my best to ruin their chances of forming.
- ath3nd 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - VirusNewbie 3y ago
    > I am talking to a mid 20's conservative childless male from the US who recently managed to join FAANG (congratulations). I'm in my early 40s, coding professionally since I was a teen, so over 20 YOE, lived through multiple downturns. Didn't vote conservative at all last election. I have a child, and have extensive experience in both big companies and small startups. >And I can guarantee you, your FAANG is just waiting to replace you with a cheaper, younger and more malleable version of yourself, ready to hustle for less money and put more hours in. I mean, they're welcome to, but they could have hired someone for far far cheaper than me, and they didn't. What you might be thinking of is Boeing, the place with an engineering union. Why don't you talk about how it's better to go work there? I think it's likely you're a lot less experienced than I am in tech, and once you get some more skill and experience you'l understand what the rest of us are talking about.