3 ms·

my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. To be fair: most folks don't really remember as many details a

my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. To be fair: most folks don't really remember as many details as you think. Definitely not photo-level. I generally tell folks that you'll be able to draw a bird, sure. Even different kinds of birds - but they will be fairly generic and simple. You'll know it is a duck or goose or little bird or owl. But unless you've studied birds and drawn a lot of them, it won't be a blue jay, an exotic duck, a snowy owl, and so on. Not without a reference picture, of course. Those reference photos are important enough that I had an art teacher that tasked us with taking reference photos with disposable cameras. This was mid-90s, before phones were everywhere and there were so many resources for such things. I'll also add that I keep a dialog in my head as I draw. I can visualize well enough, but the 'thinking voice' come along and narrates the things I'm drawing. "Put that line there and go down and across the page...." "Just add that little window down there and remember the handle!"

bongodongobob 3y ago
I am 100% convinced people who self-diagnose with aphantasia think normal people hallucinate images in their mind. They are just being dense. Unless they've had a MRI, they are just shockingly confused.
- mercutio2 3y ago
  Umm... Are you sure you don't have aphantasia? When I've asked a room full of people "close your eyes. Think of an elephant. What do you see?", 80% of the people say "I see a rough elephant". I've asked "do you really see it? Like, there are proportions, colors, etc.?" Most people say yes. When I close my eyes and I do this, I see... nothing but dark eyelids with sparkles. Are the other people I've asked this of lying? Or are you mistaken that normal people don't have a mind's eye which actually reproduces images? EDIT: OK, I'm curious. I've created an HN poll. Obviously our readership isn't an unbiased sample, but I'm very interested to learn how different people experience this experiment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    The problem is what you mean by "see". It's not using your vision so there's no "overlay" as I'm assuming people expect. Unless someone has been diagnosed with an MRI, I'm not buying it. Edit: I didn't make my point clear. I think that people who claim to have aphantasia expect to see a hallucinated overlay over their vision, which is obviously not what someone means when they say "imagine what an apple looks like".
    - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
      It's not using your vision so there's no "overlay" as I'm assuming people expect. Speak for yourself. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't to others. This is a skill you might be able to develop, if you can visualize already. If you lack resources, you might visit various occult groups for tips. Visualisation is a big part of practice for some people. An MRI will not "diagnose" you.
      - bongodongobob 3y ago
        Google aphantasia MRI.
        Broken_Hippo 3y ago
        Ok. I did. "Yet, there is no consensus on whether aphantasia should really be described as a 'condition', and there is no battery of psychometric instruments to detect or 'diagnose' aphantasia. Instead, researchers currently rely on the Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire (VVIQ) to 'diagnose' aphantasia." [1] There is not a test that can realistically be relied on. At least one of the top results was someone getting an MRI because of sudden aphantasia. At least one of them was about mouse studies. And I'll just go back to what I've said: You can't get diagnosed with an MRI, and honestly it'd probably be irresponsible to do so since folks with actual issues need the MRI (aphantasia generally seems to be a simple difference in the way one thinks rather than an actual condition. More akin to which hand is dominant than to anything physically wrong). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/
- Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  Seriously: How is someone else going to diagnose you with it? If not self-diagnosed, how is it done? Do you think there is a test? And MRI generally isn't going to tell you this (this article was research on mice, after all) and even if it did, it would be fairly irresponsible to use up medical resources on something like this. And sometimes, yeah, they might - especially with the way some folks describe it. It is very difficult to describe such things to other people who do not experience them.
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    I mean, how is someone else able to diagnose any mental condition? Why do you ask this as if it can't be done? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/

bongodongobob 3y ago

I am 100% convinced people who self-diagnose with aphantasia think normal people hallucinate images in their mind. They are just being dense. Unless they've had a MRI, they are just shockingly confused.

mercutio2 3y ago
Umm... Are you sure you don't have aphantasia? When I've asked a room full of people "close your eyes. Think of an elephant. What do you see?", 80% of the people say "I see a rough elephant". I've asked "do you really see it? Like, there are proportions, colors, etc.?" Most people say yes. When I close my eyes and I do this, I see... nothing but dark eyelids with sparkles. Are the other people I've asked this of lying? Or are you mistaken that normal people don't have a mind's eye which actually reproduces images? EDIT: OK, I'm curious. I've created an HN poll. Obviously our readership isn't an unbiased sample, but I'm very interested to learn how different people experience this experiment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  The problem is what you mean by "see". It's not using your vision so there's no "overlay" as I'm assuming people expect. Unless someone has been diagnosed with an MRI, I'm not buying it. Edit: I didn't make my point clear. I think that people who claim to have aphantasia expect to see a hallucinated overlay over their vision, which is obviously not what someone means when they say "imagine what an apple looks like".
  - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
    It's not using your vision so there's no "overlay" as I'm assuming people expect. Speak for yourself. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't to others. This is a skill you might be able to develop, if you can visualize already. If you lack resources, you might visit various occult groups for tips. Visualisation is a big part of practice for some people. An MRI will not "diagnose" you.
    - bongodongobob 3y ago
      Google aphantasia MRI.
      - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
        Ok. I did. "Yet, there is no consensus on whether aphantasia should really be described as a 'condition', and there is no battery of psychometric instruments to detect or 'diagnose' aphantasia. Instead, researchers currently rely on the Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire (VVIQ) to 'diagnose' aphantasia." [1] There is not a test that can realistically be relied on. At least one of the top results was someone getting an MRI because of sudden aphantasia. At least one of them was about mouse studies. And I'll just go back to what I've said: You can't get diagnosed with an MRI, and honestly it'd probably be irresponsible to do so since folks with actual issues need the MRI (aphantasia generally seems to be a simple difference in the way one thinks rather than an actual condition. More akin to which hand is dominant than to anything physically wrong). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
Seriously: How is someone else going to diagnose you with it? If not self-diagnosed, how is it done? Do you think there is a test? And MRI generally isn't going to tell you this (this article was research on mice, after all) and even if it did, it would be fairly irresponsible to use up medical resources on something like this. And sometimes, yeah, they might - especially with the way some folks describe it. It is very difficult to describe such things to other people who do not experience them.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  I mean, how is someone else able to diagnose any mental condition? Why do you ask this as if it can't be done? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8186241/