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> I hope a federated protocol can survive in a world of asymmetric operators. Email has done … ok. Email as a decentralized protocol is basically dead at this

> I hope a federated protocol can survive in a world of asymmetric operators. Email has done … ok. Email as a decentralized protocol is basically dead at this point. Not to mention extreme decline in usage from younger generations and to a lesser extent the whole population. Google can maybe take some of the blame for that, but they also likely extended the lifetime of email too through Gmail's relative ease of use (in the early days).

BobaFloutist 3y ago
The killer of email, like with every method of communication that has gone mainstream and then declined, is spam. Not just spam as in fraudulent scams, though those are pretty bad. Not just spam from companies you've done business with and neglected to opt out of legal spam from, though it's exhausting. Once a communication protocol gets a reputation as a consistent way to reach someone, with some level of urgency, a certain subset of the population lowers their threshold for what constitutes urgency until the signal gets lost in the noise. Not sure how to fix it.
- pmontra 3y ago
  Spam is a problem, chats are another one, IMHO a bigger one. Every message in a chat, whatever chat, is one less mail sent. That was true in the 80s / 90s with IRC and it's true with WhatsApp, Slack, etc now.
schmichael 3y ago
> Email as a decentralized protocol is basically dead at this point. While I wouldn't consider it healthy, it is far from dead. Billions of emails are sent every day from untold numbers of operators, few of whom have a direct relationship with one another. Few systems can claim that level of use and distribution. Email users can choose from a number of free or paid providers. None of those providers had to request access to participate in the email network, such as requesting API keys from Twitter or Meta to participate on their platforms. This is not to say email is easy or without gatekeepers! This is only to say it's possible for a determined and technically capable operator, whether an individual or an organization, to participate in the global email system without having to ask any one entity for permission. Again: I'm not trying to assert it's a particularly healthy federated ecosystem, but I would argue it's still a successful one.
ItsABytecode 3y ago
I feel like “email is dead as a decentralized protocol” is paradoxically a meme among Gmail users. Counter-anecdote: I haven’t touched Gmail in years and I still send and receive email fine
- petre 3y ago
  Yup, I too receive spam just fine. Greylisting and SPF alone doesn't stop it now. If I want to send e-mail to someone on gmail or office365 it usually ends up in spam.

BobaFloutist 3y ago

The killer of email, like with every method of communication that has gone mainstream and then declined, is spam. Not just spam as in fraudulent scams, though those are pretty bad. Not just spam from companies you've done business with and neglected to opt out of legal spam from, though it's exhausting. Once a communication protocol gets a reputation as a consistent way to reach someone, with some level of urgency, a certain subset of the population lowers their threshold for what constitutes urgency until the signal gets lost in the noise. Not sure how to fix it.

pmontra 3y ago
Spam is a problem, chats are another one, IMHO a bigger one. Every message in a chat, whatever chat, is one less mail sent. That was true in the 80s / 90s with IRC and it's true with WhatsApp, Slack, etc now.

schmichael 3y ago

> Email as a decentralized protocol is basically dead at this point. While I wouldn't consider it healthy, it is far from dead. Billions of emails are sent every day from untold numbers of operators, few of whom have a direct relationship with one another. Few systems can claim that level of use and distribution. Email users can choose from a number of free or paid providers. None of those providers had to request access to participate in the email network, such as requesting API keys from Twitter or Meta to participate on their platforms. This is not to say email is easy or without gatekeepers! This is only to say it's possible for a determined and technically capable operator, whether an individual or an organization, to participate in the global email system without having to ask any one entity for permission. Again: I'm not trying to assert it's a particularly healthy federated ecosystem, but I would argue it's still a successful one.

ItsABytecode 3y ago

I feel like “email is dead as a decentralized protocol” is paradoxically a meme among Gmail users. Counter-anecdote: I haven’t touched Gmail in years and I still send and receive email fine

petre 3y ago
Yup, I too receive spam just fine. Greylisting and SPF alone doesn't stop it now. If I want to send e-mail to someone on gmail or office365 it usually ends up in spam.