4 ms·

Yeah, I can draw one. I actually took a lot of art classes, so it is kind of hardwired into me how to draw. That said, my lighthouse will not have details in it

Yeah, I can draw one. I actually took a lot of art classes, so it is kind of hardwired into me how to draw. That said, my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. Here is kind of how my brain describes a lighthouse for me to draw it: cone-shaped, white brick, wooden door at base, a platform on top without walls, a small shingled roof, large rotating light. As I am drawing the lighthouse the part that I'm working on will have more descriptors popup in my inner voice. Like say I'm drawing the door, I will hear: "vertical slats, arched top, dark weathered wood" and as I drill into each of those, I will hear more words in my head. Maybe I trained myself to do that over many many years of art classes, but I can't remember that not being the case.

namtab00 3y ago
hmm that's weird, you forgot that they're usually painted in stripes (red/white?)
- in3d 3y ago
  It probably depends on which ones they have encountered in real life. From a Google image search, it seems that less than half are.
- dumbo-octopus 3y ago
  That's funny - I also have aphantasia and described it in much the same as the parent. But your comment threw me, I think of them as plain. Looked it up, and turns out the ones in Oregon are. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form=HDRSC3&first=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form...
- jermaustin1 3y ago
  That is not something I have encountered (I don't think), or if I did, I didn't absorb that detail. The words don't exist in my brain.
polishdude20 3y ago
That seems to be the way I see objects in my mind. It starts as a basic formless "idea" of a lighthouse. Vague images come to mind: Tall, pointy, seaside, seagulls, looming. Then I sort of focus on one part of the lighthouse instantly to figure out the details. Like the walls: Brick, painted over with white paint, moss and lichen growing on them. Then the door: Wooden, one handle, thick, dark wood, little peep hole. Etc. I never fully visualize it instantly. It's like my mind is creating the details over time. A minute later if you ask me to visualize it again, I still don't see it instantly, I need to remind myself "Oh yeah the door was wooden, the walls were white" etc. I feel like a lot of differences in people's experience of this is less to do with their actual abilities of visualization and more to do with not being able to describe what is happening and observing yourself as a third party while you're thinking.
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. To be fair: most folks don't really remember as many details as you think. Definitely not photo-level. I generally tell folks that you'll be able to draw a bird, sure. Even different kinds of birds - but they will be fairly generic and simple. You'll know it is a duck or goose or little bird or owl. But unless you've studied birds and drawn a lot of them, it won't be a blue jay, an exotic duck, a snowy owl, and so on. Not without a reference picture, of course. Those reference photos are important enough that I had an art teacher that tasked us with taking reference photos with disposable cameras. This was mid-90s, before phones were everywhere and there were so many resources for such things. I'll also add that I keep a dialog in my head as I draw. I can visualize well enough, but the 'thinking voice' come along and narrates the things I'm drawing. "Put that line there and go down and across the page...." "Just add that little window down there and remember the handle!"
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  I am 100% convinced people who self-diagnose with aphantasia think normal people hallucinate images in their mind. They are just being dense. Unless they've had a MRI, they are just shockingly confused.
  - mercutio2 3y ago
    Umm... Are you sure you don't have aphantasia? When I've asked a room full of people "close your eyes. Think of an elephant. What do you see?", 80% of the people say "I see a rough elephant". I've asked "do you really see it? Like, there are proportions, colors, etc.?" Most people say yes. When I close my eyes and I do this, I see... nothing but dark eyelids with sparkles. Are the other people I've asked this of lying? Or are you mistaken that normal people don't have a mind's eye which actually reproduces images? EDIT: OK, I'm curious. I've created an HN poll. Obviously our readership isn't an unbiased sample, but I'm very interested to learn how different people experience this experiment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632
    - 3y ago

namtab00 3y ago

hmm that's weird, you forgot that they're usually painted in stripes (red/white?)

in3d 3y ago
It probably depends on which ones they have encountered in real life. From a Google image search, it seems that less than half are.
dumbo-octopus 3y ago
That's funny - I also have aphantasia and described it in much the same as the parent. But your comment threw me, I think of them as plain. Looked it up, and turns out the ones in Oregon are. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form=HDRSC3&first=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form...
jermaustin1 3y ago
That is not something I have encountered (I don't think), or if I did, I didn't absorb that detail. The words don't exist in my brain.

polishdude20 3y ago

That seems to be the way I see objects in my mind. It starts as a basic formless "idea" of a lighthouse. Vague images come to mind: Tall, pointy, seaside, seagulls, looming. Then I sort of focus on one part of the lighthouse instantly to figure out the details. Like the walls: Brick, painted over with white paint, moss and lichen growing on them. Then the door: Wooden, one handle, thick, dark wood, little peep hole. Etc. I never fully visualize it instantly. It's like my mind is creating the details over time. A minute later if you ask me to visualize it again, I still don't see it instantly, I need to remind myself "Oh yeah the door was wooden, the walls were white" etc. I feel like a lot of differences in people's experience of this is less to do with their actual abilities of visualization and more to do with not being able to describe what is happening and observing yourself as a third party while you're thinking.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago

my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. To be fair: most folks don't really remember as many details as you think. Definitely not photo-level. I generally tell folks that you'll be able to draw a bird, sure. Even different kinds of birds - but they will be fairly generic and simple. You'll know it is a duck or goose or little bird or owl. But unless you've studied birds and drawn a lot of them, it won't be a blue jay, an exotic duck, a snowy owl, and so on. Not without a reference picture, of course. Those reference photos are important enough that I had an art teacher that tasked us with taking reference photos with disposable cameras. This was mid-90s, before phones were everywhere and there were so many resources for such things. I'll also add that I keep a dialog in my head as I draw. I can visualize well enough, but the 'thinking voice' come along and narrates the things I'm drawing. "Put that line there and go down and across the page...." "Just add that little window down there and remember the handle!"

bongodongobob 3y ago
I am 100% convinced people who self-diagnose with aphantasia think normal people hallucinate images in their mind. They are just being dense. Unless they've had a MRI, they are just shockingly confused.
- mercutio2 3y ago
  Umm... Are you sure you don't have aphantasia? When I've asked a room full of people "close your eyes. Think of an elephant. What do you see?", 80% of the people say "I see a rough elephant". I've asked "do you really see it? Like, there are proportions, colors, etc.?" Most people say yes. When I close my eyes and I do this, I see... nothing but dark eyelids with sparkles. Are the other people I've asked this of lying? Or are you mistaken that normal people don't have a mind's eye which actually reproduces images? EDIT: OK, I'm curious. I've created an HN poll. Obviously our readership isn't an unbiased sample, but I'm very interested to learn how different people experience this experiment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660632
  - 3y ago