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I just assumed that everyone has "aphantasia". What does it mean to "picture things in your mind"? How would one explain to another what that meant? How would o

I just assumed that everyone has "aphantasia". What does it mean to "picture things in your mind"? How would one explain to another what that meant? How would one be tested to determine if one could do that?

delecti 3y ago
A person without aphantasia can experience thoughts as though they were literally seeing the things being thought about. There are varying degrees to it, and this, or something like it, makes the rounds on social media from time to time: https://i.imgur.com/gpN7EcP.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gpN7EcP.jpeg I'm about a 2-3 when I'm just idly thinking about things, and can get to about a 1-2 if I really concentrate on an image. Subjectively, the images I'm experiencing in my mind aren't exactly the same as actually seeing things, but they're pretty similar.
- krunck 3y ago
  I'm 3.5. It's crazy to me that people can see vivid imagery or rotate 3d objects in their minds eye.
  - intrasight 3y ago
    I'm a 4. But I still score off the charts on 3D object manipulation. But I don't see those objects. It's more a symbolic representation.
jermaustin1 3y ago
My wife doesn't have it, so when we discovered I had it, she was gobsmacked by the fact that I don't see a green apple when told to picture it. I always though when someone would say "picture it" it was just describe it in as much detail as possible, like reading about it in a book.
speedylight 3y ago
Some people like it to call it the “Mind’s eye” - Basically you can create images in your mind by just thinking about them. Like if I wanted to “see” a golden retriever, I can just imagine one because I’ve seen them before, so my mind knows what to do. You can also manipulate those images; so for example instead of the golden retriever being gold, I can imagine it in a purple or green color, etc. A good analogy is that the human mind can have it’s own internal stable diffusion or Midjourney, complete with the ability to give it a “prompt” i.e. thinking about what you want to imagine. I was surprised to learn a while ago that not everyone can visualize things in their mind. As far testing for it, I don’t really know how that would work. I don’t think you really need to test for it, I assume most people who can visualize things in their mind know that they can.
- intrasight 3y ago
  I'm the opposite - I assume that most people cannot. I think fMRI combined with machine learning will get to the point of being able to very accurately test one's "mind's eye" abilities. I take with a grain of salt anyone's claimed ability to do this until proven by the fMRI test. Self-assessment has a very poor record in most domains.
rhinoceraptor 3y ago
What I imagine it's like is if you can "replay" a song in your head, you don't literally hear it, but it's a very similar feeling as actually listening to the song.
goatlover 3y ago
Why would you assume that everyone has the same mental capacities as yourself just because you can't imagine having an ability you lack? Have you never hallucinated, day dreamed or become aware that you're dreaming? How about visual memories? Because even if you can't will yourself to imagine a visual object, you can see them in those other cases. It means the same thing as seeing an external object, except without the external source. Your brain creates a visual experience independent of a visual sensation/input from the eyes. There's also ways to induce this with electrodes and magnetic resonance applied to the visual cortex.
- intrasight 3y ago
  > Have you never hallucinated, day dreamed or become aware that you're dreaming? How about visual memories? I have those indeed. That's not what the discussion is about.
  - goatlover 3y ago
    Sure it is. They all involve visual experience. Why would imagination be different, other than in the capacity of the individual to voluntarily visualize?

delecti 3y ago

A person without aphantasia can experience thoughts as though they were literally seeing the things being thought about. There are varying degrees to it, and this, or something like it, makes the rounds on social media from time to time: https://i.imgur.com/gpN7EcP.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gpN7EcP.jpeg I'm about a 2-3 when I'm just idly thinking about things, and can get to about a 1-2 if I really concentrate on an image. Subjectively, the images I'm experiencing in my mind aren't exactly the same as actually seeing things, but they're pretty similar.

krunck 3y ago
I'm 3.5. It's crazy to me that people can see vivid imagery or rotate 3d objects in their minds eye.
- intrasight 3y ago
  I'm a 4. But I still score off the charts on 3D object manipulation. But I don't see those objects. It's more a symbolic representation.

jermaustin1 3y ago

My wife doesn't have it, so when we discovered I had it, she was gobsmacked by the fact that I don't see a green apple when told to picture it. I always though when someone would say "picture it" it was just describe it in as much detail as possible, like reading about it in a book.

speedylight 3y ago

Some people like it to call it the “Mind’s eye” - Basically you can create images in your mind by just thinking about them. Like if I wanted to “see” a golden retriever, I can just imagine one because I’ve seen them before, so my mind knows what to do. You can also manipulate those images; so for example instead of the golden retriever being gold, I can imagine it in a purple or green color, etc. A good analogy is that the human mind can have it’s own internal stable diffusion or Midjourney, complete with the ability to give it a “prompt” i.e. thinking about what you want to imagine. I was surprised to learn a while ago that not everyone can visualize things in their mind. As far testing for it, I don’t really know how that would work. I don’t think you really need to test for it, I assume most people who can visualize things in their mind know that they can.

intrasight 3y ago
I'm the opposite - I assume that most people cannot. I think fMRI combined with machine learning will get to the point of being able to very accurately test one's "mind's eye" abilities. I take with a grain of salt anyone's claimed ability to do this until proven by the fMRI test. Self-assessment has a very poor record in most domains.

rhinoceraptor 3y ago

What I imagine it's like is if you can "replay" a song in your head, you don't literally hear it, but it's a very similar feeling as actually listening to the song.

goatlover 3y ago

Why would you assume that everyone has the same mental capacities as yourself just because you can't imagine having an ability you lack? Have you never hallucinated, day dreamed or become aware that you're dreaming? How about visual memories? Because even if you can't will yourself to imagine a visual object, you can see them in those other cases. It means the same thing as seeing an external object, except without the external source. Your brain creates a visual experience independent of a visual sensation/input from the eyes. There's also ways to induce this with electrodes and magnetic resonance applied to the visual cortex.

intrasight 3y ago
> Have you never hallucinated, day dreamed or become aware that you're dreaming? How about visual memories? I have those indeed. That's not what the discussion is about.
- goatlover 3y ago
  Sure it is. They all involve visual experience. Why would imagination be different, other than in the capacity of the individual to voluntarily visualize?