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thats interesting. So if someone asks you to draw a picture of a lighthouse, are you able to draw it without looking at an actual lighthouse or a picture of it?

thats interesting. So if someone asks you to draw a picture of a lighthouse, are you able to draw it without looking at an actual lighthouse or a picture of it? if yes, then how?

Karawebnetwork 3y ago
There's actually a few interesting articles out there about this: https://theconversation.com/the-art-of-aphantasia-how-mind-blind-artists-create-without-being-able-to-visualise-162566 https://theconversation.com/the-art-of-aphantasia-how-mind-b... "Edinburgh: “I can remember visual details,” he commented, “but I can’t see them”." In this one, they show step by step how the artist does it: https://aphantasia.com/article/stories/visual-artist-with-aphantasia/ https://aphantasia.com/article/stories/visual-artist-with-ap...
rhinoceraptor 3y ago
I also have it, I can draw a lighthouse because I know what it should look like. But if I close my eyes and try to visualize it, I don't have any sense that I'm seeing something, in the same way that I have a sense that I'm listening to a song when I play it back from memory. When I dream there's only a faint visual component, there's no color or detail.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  Same. Also, when reading fiction, I never have any use for the long-winded descriptions of a place and a character. I don't picture the scene or character, but I create my own "space" where I can place the characters and the action, and I can feel beeing there. This "space" can have details, but usually not a lot. Recalling memories are similar. I can vividly feel the moment, and I can remember a lot of non-visual details, and often some distinct visual details. But I can't really picture it.
  - dumbo-octopus 3y ago
    > I never have any use for the long-winded descriptions of a place and a character. Same, and oh my goodness did my teachers in High School chastise me for not wanting to produce those same strings of adjectives in my own works. I fundamentally could not understand why someone would want to read that much description about the appearance of something.
- namtab00 3y ago
  now that I think of it, in my dreams colors are not something I recall, but I definitely can say that I don't dream in greyscale..
- the_af 3y ago
  Would you be able to go beyond the abstract notion of a lighthouse (basic geometric shape, white with red stripes, etc) and without a reference know where to paint shadows, how to dither them, how to achieve some "weathering effects", marks left by the water, etc? My guess is that kind of "untrained intuitions" about drawing require two preconditions: 1. Having seen lighthouses or buildings and paid attention to how rust/marks/decay and the interplay of light and shadow looks like. 2. Being able to visualize this when drawing. Otherwise, how can the drawing (without a photo reference) be anything but idealized and abstract?
tiborsaas 3y ago
It's stored conceptually and I don't need to recall it visually to copy it to paper.
jermaustin1 3y ago
Yeah, I can draw one. I actually took a lot of art classes, so it is kind of hardwired into me how to draw. That said, my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. Here is kind of how my brain describes a lighthouse for me to draw it: cone-shaped, white brick, wooden door at base, a platform on top without walls, a small shingled roof, large rotating light. As I am drawing the lighthouse the part that I'm working on will have more descriptors popup in my inner voice. Like say I'm drawing the door, I will hear: "vertical slats, arched top, dark weathered wood" and as I drill into each of those, I will hear more words in my head. Maybe I trained myself to do that over many many years of art classes, but I can't remember that not being the case.
- namtab00 3y ago
  hmm that's weird, you forgot that they're usually painted in stripes (red/white?)
  - in3d 3y ago
    It probably depends on which ones they have encountered in real life. From a Google image search, it seems that less than half are.
  - dumbo-octopus 3y ago
    That's funny - I also have aphantasia and described it in much the same as the parent. But your comment threw me, I think of them as plain. Looked it up, and turns out the ones in Oregon are. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form=HDRSC3&first=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form...
  - jermaustin1 3y ago
    That is not something I have encountered (I don't think), or if I did, I didn't absorb that detail. The words don't exist in my brain.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  That seems to be the way I see objects in my mind. It starts as a basic formless "idea" of a lighthouse. Vague images come to mind: Tall, pointy, seaside, seagulls, looming. Then I sort of focus on one part of the lighthouse instantly to figure out the details. Like the walls: Brick, painted over with white paint, moss and lichen growing on them. Then the door: Wooden, one handle, thick, dark wood, little peep hole. Etc. I never fully visualize it instantly. It's like my mind is creating the details over time. A minute later if you ask me to visualize it again, I still don't see it instantly, I need to remind myself "Oh yeah the door was wooden, the walls were white" etc. I feel like a lot of differences in people's experience of this is less to do with their actual abilities of visualization and more to do with not being able to describe what is happening and observing yourself as a third party while you're thinking.

thats interesting. So if someone asks you to draw a picture of a lighthouse, are you able to draw it without looking at an actual lighthouse or a picture of it? if yes, then how?

Karawebnetwork 3y ago

There's actually a few interesting articles out there about this: https://theconversation.com/the-art-of-aphantasia-how-mind-blind-artists-create-without-being-able-to-visualise-162566 https://theconversation.com/the-art-of-aphantasia-how-mind-b... "Edinburgh: “I can remember visual details,” he commented, “but I can’t see them”." In this one, they show step by step how the artist does it: https://aphantasia.com/article/stories/visual-artist-with-aphantasia/ https://aphantasia.com/article/stories/visual-artist-with-ap...

rhinoceraptor 3y ago

I also have it, I can draw a lighthouse because I know what it should look like. But if I close my eyes and try to visualize it, I don't have any sense that I'm seeing something, in the same way that I have a sense that I'm listening to a song when I play it back from memory. When I dream there's only a faint visual component, there's no color or detail.

magicalhippo 3y ago
Same. Also, when reading fiction, I never have any use for the long-winded descriptions of a place and a character. I don't picture the scene or character, but I create my own "space" where I can place the characters and the action, and I can feel beeing there. This "space" can have details, but usually not a lot. Recalling memories are similar. I can vividly feel the moment, and I can remember a lot of non-visual details, and often some distinct visual details. But I can't really picture it.
- dumbo-octopus 3y ago
  > I never have any use for the long-winded descriptions of a place and a character. Same, and oh my goodness did my teachers in High School chastise me for not wanting to produce those same strings of adjectives in my own works. I fundamentally could not understand why someone would want to read that much description about the appearance of something.
namtab00 3y ago
now that I think of it, in my dreams colors are not something I recall, but I definitely can say that I don't dream in greyscale..
the_af 3y ago
Would you be able to go beyond the abstract notion of a lighthouse (basic geometric shape, white with red stripes, etc) and without a reference know where to paint shadows, how to dither them, how to achieve some "weathering effects", marks left by the water, etc? My guess is that kind of "untrained intuitions" about drawing require two preconditions: 1. Having seen lighthouses or buildings and paid attention to how rust/marks/decay and the interplay of light and shadow looks like. 2. Being able to visualize this when drawing. Otherwise, how can the drawing (without a photo reference) be anything but idealized and abstract?

tiborsaas 3y ago

It's stored conceptually and I don't need to recall it visually to copy it to paper.

jermaustin1 3y ago

Yeah, I can draw one. I actually took a lot of art classes, so it is kind of hardwired into me how to draw. That said, my lighthouse will not have details in it that someone who can recall a photograph of one might. Here is kind of how my brain describes a lighthouse for me to draw it: cone-shaped, white brick, wooden door at base, a platform on top without walls, a small shingled roof, large rotating light. As I am drawing the lighthouse the part that I'm working on will have more descriptors popup in my inner voice. Like say I'm drawing the door, I will hear: "vertical slats, arched top, dark weathered wood" and as I drill into each of those, I will hear more words in my head. Maybe I trained myself to do that over many many years of art classes, but I can't remember that not being the case.

namtab00 3y ago
hmm that's weird, you forgot that they're usually painted in stripes (red/white?)
- in3d 3y ago
  It probably depends on which ones they have encountered in real life. From a Google image search, it seems that less than half are.
- dumbo-octopus 3y ago
  That's funny - I also have aphantasia and described it in much the same as the parent. But your comment threw me, I think of them as plain. Looked it up, and turns out the ones in Oregon are. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form=HDRSC3&first=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=oregon+lighthouses&form...
- jermaustin1 3y ago
  That is not something I have encountered (I don't think), or if I did, I didn't absorb that detail. The words don't exist in my brain.
polishdude20 3y ago
That seems to be the way I see objects in my mind. It starts as a basic formless "idea" of a lighthouse. Vague images come to mind: Tall, pointy, seaside, seagulls, looming. Then I sort of focus on one part of the lighthouse instantly to figure out the details. Like the walls: Brick, painted over with white paint, moss and lichen growing on them. Then the door: Wooden, one handle, thick, dark wood, little peep hole. Etc. I never fully visualize it instantly. It's like my mind is creating the details over time. A minute later if you ask me to visualize it again, I still don't see it instantly, I need to remind myself "Oh yeah the door was wooden, the walls were white" etc. I feel like a lot of differences in people's experience of this is less to do with their actual abilities of visualization and more to do with not being able to describe what is happening and observing yourself as a third party while you're thinking.