6 ms·

WWII code breaker Mary Ratcliffe has died

163 points by smcin 3y ago

smcin 3y ago
[dead]
smcin 3y ago
(There will be better obituaries for her, but for now the DailyMail was one of the first to publish)
- LemmyInThePub 3y ago
  The Daily Mail certainly isn't a reputable news source. In fact, Wikipedia has banned its use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Reliability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Reliability
  - dang 3y ago
    On HN, we go by article quality, not site quality. This looks like a good enough article. Lots of past explanation about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22article%20quality%22%20%22site%20quality%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
    - xanderlewis 3y ago
      Interesting; I wasn’t aware of that.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Surprisingly, no Wikipedia page for this notable figure.
- smcin 3y ago
  I can't find out whether she was a cryptographer, but she was at a higher level than the technicians. https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/3840026.letter-from-mary-ratcliffe/ https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/3840026.letter-f...
  - weebull 3y ago
    Here's an account from another WRNS P5. https://bletchleypark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/record_attachments/2041.pdf https://bletchleypark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/record_attac... Sounds like they did the manual work of running the Bombe machines.
- MandieD 3y ago
  Pages for women scientists have often been deleted (or at least nominated for deletion) for not being notable enough: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/female-scientists-pages-keep-disappearing-from-wikipedia-whats-going-on/3010664.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/female-scientists-pages-...
  - dudul 3y ago
    Was she a scientist? I didn't know her, and after reading this, admittedly short, article it doesn't look like she was doing much more than technician work.
  - smcin 3y ago
    The article didn't say she was a scientist. There were also technicians. It's unclear. I said there may be more detailed bios published. I was unable to find much under her name.
  - weebull 3y ago
    That is an odd article you've linked to. There seems to be several factors in play. 1. People observe that there is a disparity in the number of pages on Wikipedia about men and women in science. 2. This leads to a number of people searching out people to write about that would redress the balance. 3. Unfortunately some are really only notable for their gender and/or ethnicity, and Wikipedia does not view that as a factor. 4. Hence, a lot of these pages get flagged for deletion. The discrepancy is largely a reflection of our history. Until recently women and non-white ethnicities weren't in positions of scientific research. With fewer people in the field, there will be fewer notable people even if the chance of one person being notable is the same. It sounds like the "deletion of female scientists" is the system working correctly in response to people submitting articles for reasons other than refection the historical truth. I'm sure there are cases of someone having their contribution ignored due to racism/sexism, but artifically inflating the achievements of people just to redress some perceived imbalance doesn't help. Now another person gets credit they don't deserve whilst the true talent gets buried deeper.
fanatic2pope 3y ago
If you are ever nearby, I can strongly recommend visiting Bletchley Park. It is a pretty small museum now, but almost everything about it is fascinating and you can easily spend a full day there. https://bletchleypark.org.uk/ https://bletchleypark.org.uk/
- komadori 3y ago
  I prefer The National Museum of Computing, which now occupies a site just outside the Bletchley Park museum perimeter. For example, the last time I visited Bletchley Park they were exhibiting a mock-up of one side of a Bombe with a video screen mounted on the other side playing something on a loop. By comparison, TNMoC has a real working reconstruction of a Bombe and we were able to watch a live code breaking demonstration. https://www.tnmoc.org/ https://www.tnmoc.org/
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]
jcutrell 3y ago
This one is banner worthy if any of them are.
defrost 3y ago
> She decoded messages which were encrypted by German Enigma machines using Bombe machines invented by Alan Turing at Bletchley Park. I like Turing, I've read his papers. I like William Thomas Tutte and had the opportunity to talk to him in Canada many years past. The Bombe machines were scaled up parallel rack mount versions of the Cyclometer created by Marian Rejewski, Jerzy Różycki, and Henryk Zygalski who cracked the Enigma code and designed the machines that automated the process. Turing, Flowers, and others built on their work to bring it to industrial scale, which was a feat worthy of note, but the cracking and original invention happened in Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclometer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclometer https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/01/polish-mathematicians-and-cracking-the-enigma.html https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/01/polish-mathematicians-a...
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  And let us also not forget about Zygalski sheets[0] and Rejewski's Bomba[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygalski_sheets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygalski_sheets [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomba_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomba_(cryptography)
  - defrost 3y ago
    Indeed - the Enigma decoding machines at Bletchley were the evolution of earlier designs, two iterations at least that came from the Poles. I mentioned Tutte as Bletchley can take full credit for the inhouse reverse engineering and attacks on Tunny, the Lorenz cipher, a more difficult cipher than Enigma and one used for more sensitive traffic by the Germans. Tunny had an entirely seperate dedicated class of machines used for its attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer Colossus is thus regarded as the world's first programmable, electronic, digital computer, although it was programmed by switches and plugs and not by a stored program.
    - weebull 3y ago
xanderlewis 3y ago
Didn’t expect to see the Daily Mail at the top of HN.
- seanhunter 3y ago
  Yes. It's especially ironic in this case given the fact that the Daily Mail was pro-appeasement and its proprietor Viscount Rothermere even pro-Hitler[1] and pro-fascist[2] in the run up to WWII. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/apr/01/pressandpublishing.secondworldwar https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/apr/01/pressandpublis... [2] https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fr6ysv5shwh941.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fr...
  - lloydatkinson 3y ago
    The Daily Heil, as it’s often referred to, was and still is frequently on the wrong side of history. Pushed for closer relations with Hitler, encouraged people to vote for UKIP, pushed for Brexit, frequently writes literally-proved-in-court lies and slander, the list is long. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
  - achates 3y ago
    The NYT was telling us that the Holodomor was a lie around the same time, and their Moscow correspondent (Walter Durant) won a Pulitzer for it. So we should probably ignore them too if a paper's opinions from the 1930s are still relevant.
    - xanderlewis 3y ago
      I would largely ignore the NYT, but for other reasons. Their 21st century journalism is bad enough.
- smcin 3y ago
  (I had searched for other more detailed obituaries but didn't find any at the time of posting; since I'm very well aware of the DailyMail's poor reputation.) If you or anyone else find a better obituary please post it.
white_dragon88 3y ago
[dead]

163 points by smcin 3y ago

smcin 3y ago

[dead]

smcin 3y ago

(There will be better obituaries for her, but for now the DailyMail was one of the first to publish)

LemmyInThePub 3y ago
The Daily Mail certainly isn't a reputable news source. In fact, Wikipedia has banned its use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Reliability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail#Reliability
- dang 3y ago
  On HN, we go by article quality, not site quality. This looks like a good enough article. Lots of past explanation about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22article%20quality%22%20%22site%20quality%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
  - xanderlewis 3y ago
    Interesting; I wasn’t aware of that.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Surprisingly, no Wikipedia page for this notable figure.

smcin 3y ago
I can't find out whether she was a cryptographer, but she was at a higher level than the technicians. https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/3840026.letter-from-mary-ratcliffe/ https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/3840026.letter-f...
- weebull 3y ago
  Here's an account from another WRNS P5. https://bletchleypark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/record_attachments/2041.pdf https://bletchleypark.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/record_attac... Sounds like they did the manual work of running the Bombe machines.
MandieD 3y ago
Pages for women scientists have often been deleted (or at least nominated for deletion) for not being notable enough: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/female-scientists-pages-keep-disappearing-from-wikipedia-whats-going-on/3010664.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/female-scientists-pages-...
- dudul 3y ago
  Was she a scientist? I didn't know her, and after reading this, admittedly short, article it doesn't look like she was doing much more than technician work.
- smcin 3y ago
  The article didn't say she was a scientist. There were also technicians. It's unclear. I said there may be more detailed bios published. I was unable to find much under her name.
- weebull 3y ago
  That is an odd article you've linked to. There seems to be several factors in play. 1. People observe that there is a disparity in the number of pages on Wikipedia about men and women in science. 2. This leads to a number of people searching out people to write about that would redress the balance. 3. Unfortunately some are really only notable for their gender and/or ethnicity, and Wikipedia does not view that as a factor. 4. Hence, a lot of these pages get flagged for deletion. The discrepancy is largely a reflection of our history. Until recently women and non-white ethnicities weren't in positions of scientific research. With fewer people in the field, there will be fewer notable people even if the chance of one person being notable is the same. It sounds like the "deletion of female scientists" is the system working correctly in response to people submitting articles for reasons other than refection the historical truth. I'm sure there are cases of someone having their contribution ignored due to racism/sexism, but artifically inflating the achievements of people just to redress some perceived imbalance doesn't help. Now another person gets credit they don't deserve whilst the true talent gets buried deeper.

fanatic2pope 3y ago

If you are ever nearby, I can strongly recommend visiting Bletchley Park. It is a pretty small museum now, but almost everything about it is fascinating and you can easily spend a full day there. https://bletchleypark.org.uk/ https://bletchleypark.org.uk/

komadori 3y ago
I prefer The National Museum of Computing, which now occupies a site just outside the Bletchley Park museum perimeter. For example, the last time I visited Bletchley Park they were exhibiting a mock-up of one side of a Bombe with a video screen mounted on the other side playing something on a loop. By comparison, TNMoC has a real working reconstruction of a Bombe and we were able to watch a live code breaking demonstration. https://www.tnmoc.org/ https://www.tnmoc.org/

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]

jcutrell 3y ago

This one is banner worthy if any of them are.

defrost 3y ago

> She decoded messages which were encrypted by German Enigma machines using Bombe machines invented by Alan Turing at Bletchley Park. I like Turing, I've read his papers. I like William Thomas Tutte and had the opportunity to talk to him in Canada many years past. The Bombe machines were scaled up parallel rack mount versions of the Cyclometer created by Marian Rejewski, Jerzy Różycki, and Henryk Zygalski who cracked the Enigma code and designed the machines that automated the process. Turing, Flowers, and others built on their work to bring it to industrial scale, which was a feat worthy of note, but the cracking and original invention happened in Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclometer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclometer https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/01/polish-mathematicians-and-cracking-the-enigma.html https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/01/polish-mathematicians-a...

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
And let us also not forget about Zygalski sheets[0] and Rejewski's Bomba[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygalski_sheets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygalski_sheets [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomba_(cryptography) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomba_(cryptography)
- defrost 3y ago
  Indeed - the Enigma decoding machines at Bletchley were the evolution of earlier designs, two iterations at least that came from the Poles. I mentioned Tutte as Bletchley can take full credit for the inhouse reverse engineering and attacks on Tunny, the Lorenz cipher, a more difficult cipher than Enigma and one used for more sensitive traffic by the Germans. Tunny had an entirely seperate dedicated class of machines used for its attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer Colossus is thus regarded as the world's first programmable, electronic, digital computer, although it was programmed by switches and plugs and not by a stored program.
  - weebull 3y ago

xanderlewis 3y ago

Didn’t expect to see the Daily Mail at the top of HN.

seanhunter 3y ago
Yes. It's especially ironic in this case given the fact that the Daily Mail was pro-appeasement and its proprietor Viscount Rothermere even pro-Hitler[1] and pro-fascist[2] in the run up to WWII. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/apr/01/pressandpublishing.secondworldwar https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/apr/01/pressandpublis... [2] https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fr6ysv5shwh941.jpg https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fr...
- lloydatkinson 3y ago
  The Daily Heil, as it’s often referred to, was and still is frequently on the wrong side of history. Pushed for closer relations with Hitler, encouraged people to vote for UKIP, pushed for Brexit, frequently writes literally-proved-in-court lies and slander, the list is long. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
- achates 3y ago
  The NYT was telling us that the Holodomor was a lie around the same time, and their Moscow correspondent (Walter Durant) won a Pulitzer for it. So we should probably ignore them too if a paper's opinions from the 1930s are still relevant.
  - xanderlewis 3y ago
    I would largely ignore the NYT, but for other reasons. Their 21st century journalism is bad enough.
smcin 3y ago
(I had searched for other more detailed obituaries but didn't find any at the time of posting; since I'm very well aware of the DailyMail's poor reputation.) If you or anyone else find a better obituary please post it.

white_dragon88 3y ago

[dead]