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Probably controversial on HN but I'm thinking the same about Apple, I could certainly imagine a phone landscape without them. Utility is subjective at the end o

Probably controversial on HN but I'm thinking the same about Apple, I could certainly imagine a phone landscape without them. Utility is subjective at the end of the day.

abduhl 3y ago
What operating system did you type this post on? Apple is more than phones.
- realusername 3y ago
  I'm currently using Linux with pop-os, both for work and personal stuff. I do have a macbook stored under my desk but it's only used for specific Apple-only stuff and it's really slow, not sure what's wrong with it.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
I can give a couple examples of utility, showing the difference between a business like Apple and LVMH. That is not to say Apple is completely and forever irreplaceable. Replace Apple with Google or Samsung. I had a completely uneducated, non English speaking great grandma living halfway around the world from all her grandkids. Due to the consistency, performance, and ease of use of FaceTime, we could easily video call to her regularly. I have a business where IT/tech support costs are way down due to implementing iPads for all the front line employees. Troubleshooting is as easy as turning it off and on, or replacing the device. Training is cheaper too. On the other hand, you have LVMH. I don’t see how anything they sell benefits 90% of the world’s population, and while people might buy expensive purses and whatnot, they will buy a smartphone first. Edit: another one I just thought of. I just helped someone calculate a return on investment using a shared spreadsheet in google drive. Clearly provided greater utility to me and my relative than me buying expensive clothing.
alephnerd 3y ago
Apple subsidize OLED manufacturing by buying up Samsung touchscreens, which directly feeds into the photovoltaic manufacturing chain (solar panel and OLED manufacturing is largely the same). Apple subsidizes Telecom chipset manufacturing by buying up Qualcomm and Broadcom chips, which directly feeds into Military and Industrial IoT applications. Apple subsidizes SoC research and manufacturing, which directly feeds into Military and Industrial IoT applications. Apple subsidizes Battery research and manufacturing, which directly feeds into EV. BYD was originally a battery supplier for Apple before they entered the EV space. Apple subsidizes CPU and chip manufacturing, which directly feeds into smaller and more efficient chipset generations. Apple creating the first App Store in the World subsidized mobile app development, which directly fed into scaling out Digital Infrastructure like eBanking, BNPL, Microlending, etc China's entire dual use supply chain can be attributed to the scale of Apple (and Samsung's) supply chain there, and both companies are having a similar impact in Vietnam and India now for the exact same reason (eg. all Samsung OLEDs are manufactured in a suburb of New Delhi now, 50% of all Samsung phones are assembled in Vietnam, 25% of all iPhones will be assembled in India by 2025, Airpods and other small consumable electronics by Apple will be assembled in Vietnam, etc)
- realusername 3y ago
  I'm not saying they didn't have an impact, I'm saying I can clearly imagine a world without them. The consumer needs are very strong here anyways.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > I can clearly imagine a world without them A world without cheap solar panels, cheap batteries, cheap electric vehicles, 3G/4G/5G internet, e-commerce and digital banking, and an industrialized China, Vietnam, and India. That is the second order impact Apple has had due to their massive economy of scale
    - realusername 3y ago
      I don't agree with that analysis, any of that is happening, with or without them. We live in a consumer-first society and consumer needs are what are driving changes. Companies helping towards this direction are getting benefits and others are left behind.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        > any of that is happening, with or without them Not really. None of the scale existed for any of those industries without Apple (and Samsung). BYD would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. Samsung would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. Qualcomm and Broadcom would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. The iPhone (and the Samsung Galaxy) are a marvel of engineering and logistics - representing the ultimate synthesis in Battery, OLED, Semiconductor, Telecom, and SoC manufacturing as scale.
        realusername 3y ago
        Some other company would have needed the exact same components anyways, it's not like you can build a smartphone without those. The biggest difference is that Apple realised it earlier than others. And yes I agree that being a global company is a requisite but it's not like there's only a single company in that position.

Probably controversial on HN but I'm thinking the same about Apple, I could certainly imagine a phone landscape without them. Utility is subjective at the end of the day.

abduhl 3y ago

What operating system did you type this post on? Apple is more than phones.

realusername 3y ago
I'm currently using Linux with pop-os, both for work and personal stuff. I do have a macbook stored under my desk but it's only used for specific Apple-only stuff and it's really slow, not sure what's wrong with it.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I can give a couple examples of utility, showing the difference between a business like Apple and LVMH. That is not to say Apple is completely and forever irreplaceable. Replace Apple with Google or Samsung. I had a completely uneducated, non English speaking great grandma living halfway around the world from all her grandkids. Due to the consistency, performance, and ease of use of FaceTime, we could easily video call to her regularly. I have a business where IT/tech support costs are way down due to implementing iPads for all the front line employees. Troubleshooting is as easy as turning it off and on, or replacing the device. Training is cheaper too. On the other hand, you have LVMH. I don’t see how anything they sell benefits 90% of the world’s population, and while people might buy expensive purses and whatnot, they will buy a smartphone first. Edit: another one I just thought of. I just helped someone calculate a return on investment using a shared spreadsheet in google drive. Clearly provided greater utility to me and my relative than me buying expensive clothing.

alephnerd 3y ago

Apple subsidize OLED manufacturing by buying up Samsung touchscreens, which directly feeds into the photovoltaic manufacturing chain (solar panel and OLED manufacturing is largely the same). Apple subsidizes Telecom chipset manufacturing by buying up Qualcomm and Broadcom chips, which directly feeds into Military and Industrial IoT applications. Apple subsidizes SoC research and manufacturing, which directly feeds into Military and Industrial IoT applications. Apple subsidizes Battery research and manufacturing, which directly feeds into EV. BYD was originally a battery supplier for Apple before they entered the EV space. Apple subsidizes CPU and chip manufacturing, which directly feeds into smaller and more efficient chipset generations. Apple creating the first App Store in the World subsidized mobile app development, which directly fed into scaling out Digital Infrastructure like eBanking, BNPL, Microlending, etc China's entire dual use supply chain can be attributed to the scale of Apple (and Samsung's) supply chain there, and both companies are having a similar impact in Vietnam and India now for the exact same reason (eg. all Samsung OLEDs are manufactured in a suburb of New Delhi now, 50% of all Samsung phones are assembled in Vietnam, 25% of all iPhones will be assembled in India by 2025, Airpods and other small consumable electronics by Apple will be assembled in Vietnam, etc)

realusername 3y ago
I'm not saying they didn't have an impact, I'm saying I can clearly imagine a world without them. The consumer needs are very strong here anyways.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > I can clearly imagine a world without them A world without cheap solar panels, cheap batteries, cheap electric vehicles, 3G/4G/5G internet, e-commerce and digital banking, and an industrialized China, Vietnam, and India. That is the second order impact Apple has had due to their massive economy of scale
  - realusername 3y ago
    I don't agree with that analysis, any of that is happening, with or without them. We live in a consumer-first society and consumer needs are what are driving changes. Companies helping towards this direction are getting benefits and others are left behind.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > any of that is happening, with or without them Not really. None of the scale existed for any of those industries without Apple (and Samsung). BYD would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. Samsung would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. Qualcomm and Broadcom would be a fraction of the size it is today without becoming an Apple vendor. The iPhone (and the Samsung Galaxy) are a marvel of engineering and logistics - representing the ultimate synthesis in Battery, OLED, Semiconductor, Telecom, and SoC manufacturing as scale.
      - realusername 3y ago
        Some other company would have needed the exact same components anyways, it's not like you can build a smartphone without those. The biggest difference is that Apple realised it earlier than others. And yes I agree that being a global company is a requisite but it's not like there's only a single company in that position.