4 ms·

> Muslims are a minority in Germany, the UK, and most European countries. Surely it's obvious from the context that this is what I'm referring to Regardless, i

> Muslims are a minority in Germany, the UK, and most European countries. Surely it's obvious from the context that this is what I'm referring to Regardless, it is misleading to cast them as a minority group in the same way as the LGBT population. They have global solidarity and power. > I personally have no doubt where the real threat to my rights comes from. It's not mutually exclusive. Radical elements from the Muslim community have long since propagated such beliefs, it's bizarre to act as if "the right stirring the pot" is the only reason such beliefs exist. Of course, there are many peaceful and tolerant Muslims. I personally know several people who moved to western countries to escape the radical elements of their home country. Those same radical elements are now (~10-15 years) immigrating and bringing their beliefs with them.

foldr 3y ago
I think you understand perfectly how Muslims are a minority group in the context of a conversation about European xenophobia. But you could delete the word ‘minority’ from my original post and it would still make the same point, so I am not sure why you keep picking at this detail. >it's bizarre to act as if "the right stirring the pot" is the only reason such beliefs exist. It would be bizarre, but I didn’t say this. There are individual people who are bigoted, which is bad, and then there are people who are making strategic use of bigotry to achieve political ends. At least in the UK, where I have the most knowledge, the current threat to LGBT rights (currently centered on various pieces of anti-trans legislation) has nothing to do with Muslims. What if we look more broadly at the European countries that have actually seen major regressions in LGBT rights? Poland and Hungary are the obvious examples. Are Muslims to blame here? On the contrary, we see that the very countries that are most hostile to immigration and religious diversity are also (surprise surprise!) hostile to gay people. On the one hand, then, we have a largely imaginary threat to LGBT rights coming from a supposed invasion of Muslim extremists, and on the other, a real threat stemming from a long and thoroughly ‘indigenous’ European far-right tradition.
- snyedd 3y ago
  > At least in the UK, where I have the most knowledge, the current threat to LGBT rights (currently cantered on various pieces of anti-trans legislation) It's pro-women legislation that is being proposed. Specifically, legislation to keep men who pretend to be women out of female-only spaces. This actually is of benefit to the LGB, lesbians in particular. If that is "anti-trans" then it just illustrates how so-called "trans rights" are an encroachment on women's rights.
  - foldr 3y ago
    That is a separate debate. The point is that it's the kind of legislation that would also be supported by conservative Muslims and conservative religious people in general. If you think that trans women are 'men who pretend to be women' then you probably have relatively little to fear from a social agenda driven by recently-immigrated Muslim extremists, were such a thing to pass. Indeed, they would probably be useful allies.

foldr 3y ago

I think you understand perfectly how Muslims are a minority group in the context of a conversation about European xenophobia. But you could delete the word ‘minority’ from my original post and it would still make the same point, so I am not sure why you keep picking at this detail. >it's bizarre to act as if "the right stirring the pot" is the only reason such beliefs exist. It would be bizarre, but I didn’t say this. There are individual people who are bigoted, which is bad, and then there are people who are making strategic use of bigotry to achieve political ends. At least in the UK, where I have the most knowledge, the current threat to LGBT rights (currently centered on various pieces of anti-trans legislation) has nothing to do with Muslims. What if we look more broadly at the European countries that have actually seen major regressions in LGBT rights? Poland and Hungary are the obvious examples. Are Muslims to blame here? On the contrary, we see that the very countries that are most hostile to immigration and religious diversity are also (surprise surprise!) hostile to gay people. On the one hand, then, we have a largely imaginary threat to LGBT rights coming from a supposed invasion of Muslim extremists, and on the other, a real threat stemming from a long and thoroughly ‘indigenous’ European far-right tradition.

snyedd 3y ago
> At least in the UK, where I have the most knowledge, the current threat to LGBT rights (currently cantered on various pieces of anti-trans legislation) It's pro-women legislation that is being proposed. Specifically, legislation to keep men who pretend to be women out of female-only spaces. This actually is of benefit to the LGB, lesbians in particular. If that is "anti-trans" then it just illustrates how so-called "trans rights" are an encroachment on women's rights.
- foldr 3y ago
  That is a separate debate. The point is that it's the kind of legislation that would also be supported by conservative Muslims and conservative religious people in general. If you think that trans women are 'men who pretend to be women' then you probably have relatively little to fear from a social agenda driven by recently-immigrated Muslim extremists, were such a thing to pass. Indeed, they would probably be useful allies.