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>Kids learn through supervised learning. Children don't develop strong language skills without parents or other people to correct them when they use language in

>Kids learn through supervised learning. Children don't develop strong language skills without parents or other people to correct them when they use language incorrectly. Untrue. Many cultures don't much speak to their children and they turn out just fine. It's fairly evident Language learning is primarily unsupervised. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/parents-in-a-remote-amazon-village-barely-talk-to-their-babies-mdash-and-the-kids-are-fine/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/parents-in-a-remo...

Jensson 3y ago
That doesn't say that parents don't correct kids, just that they don't speak to their infants. The initial words are learnt that way, but I don't think you master language without anyone to correct you when you make mistakes.
- GolDDranks 3y ago
  This is simply not true. I am very well read in language acquisition research, and no evidence supports that children would need corrections to get language right.
- famouswaffles 3y ago
  If they are correcting their kids, they are doing so far less than many parents and it evidently doesn't matter. I'm honestly curious as to why you think it's so important. Fringe Amazon groups aside, the number of parents extremely laissez-faire with correction is astounding and they raise kids that use language perfectly well. Even with parents that aren't laissez-faire, they're correcting a handful of times a day tops which can't even begin to account for full language proficiency. Children need correction yes but in a supervised way? There's no indication of that.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > they're correcting a handful of times a day tops which can't even begin to account for full language proficiency. How do you know? Humans learn from extremely few corrections, often just a single time is enough for the human to correct themselves and learn it for life. Kids learn the bulk from hearing and seeing examples. Then they fine tune that with the help of their parents and peers correcting them when they do it wrong. You can learn language and skills without those corrections, but it will be full of errors and mistakes that are easily corrected with an outsider pointing it out for you. If corrections weren't vital for human learning then humans wouldn't be so eager to correct each other when they make mistakes. There is no other purpose for it than to help them learn and get better. So your belief that those corrections doesn't do anything seems very unfounded, I'd like to see extremely strong evidence to the contrary to believe you here.
    - famouswaffles 3y ago
      >How do you know? Humans learn from extremely few corrections, I've been around little children being raised. I have some grasp on how much supervised correction is happening. It's very very little. You don't seem to get it. Children know thousands of words fluently by age 5. This is consistent across many cultures and circumstances. You would need over a handful of corrections per day right from the day of birth to square how much children know. And this is all assuming one correction per word which as much as humans are great learners seems like a very dubious assumption. I don't know what else to tell you other than this obviously isn't happening.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > And this is all assuming one correction per word which as much as humans are great learners seems like a very dubious assumption. I assume much less than one correction per word. Corrections are to fix when the kids made a mistake when they mimic others, kids doesn't make mistakes for every word so you don't need to correct every word. As I said, bulk of learning is from mimicking, but they will make a lot of mistakes when mimicking so to become good they need corrections. When I see parents with kids I see them correcting their kids all the time, correcting misunderstandings or fixing pronunciations or grammar issues etc. You can notice that parents use a specific voice when they correct the pronunciation, and the kid gets that the parent tried to correct their pronunciation from it, that happens quite a lot with small kids. You don't say "this is how to pronounce X", our genes seem to encode a way to communicate pronunciation to others to help correct mistakes. Kids also correct each other in this way, which helps make the learning more robust even when adults aren't around. All humans has instincts to correct others so I don't think any culture fails to do this.

Jensson 3y ago

That doesn't say that parents don't correct kids, just that they don't speak to their infants. The initial words are learnt that way, but I don't think you master language without anyone to correct you when you make mistakes.

GolDDranks 3y ago
This is simply not true. I am very well read in language acquisition research, and no evidence supports that children would need corrections to get language right.
famouswaffles 3y ago
If they are correcting their kids, they are doing so far less than many parents and it evidently doesn't matter. I'm honestly curious as to why you think it's so important. Fringe Amazon groups aside, the number of parents extremely laissez-faire with correction is astounding and they raise kids that use language perfectly well. Even with parents that aren't laissez-faire, they're correcting a handful of times a day tops which can't even begin to account for full language proficiency. Children need correction yes but in a supervised way? There's no indication of that.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > they're correcting a handful of times a day tops which can't even begin to account for full language proficiency. How do you know? Humans learn from extremely few corrections, often just a single time is enough for the human to correct themselves and learn it for life. Kids learn the bulk from hearing and seeing examples. Then they fine tune that with the help of their parents and peers correcting them when they do it wrong. You can learn language and skills without those corrections, but it will be full of errors and mistakes that are easily corrected with an outsider pointing it out for you. If corrections weren't vital for human learning then humans wouldn't be so eager to correct each other when they make mistakes. There is no other purpose for it than to help them learn and get better. So your belief that those corrections doesn't do anything seems very unfounded, I'd like to see extremely strong evidence to the contrary to believe you here.
  - famouswaffles 3y ago
    >How do you know? Humans learn from extremely few corrections, I've been around little children being raised. I have some grasp on how much supervised correction is happening. It's very very little. You don't seem to get it. Children know thousands of words fluently by age 5. This is consistent across many cultures and circumstances. You would need over a handful of corrections per day right from the day of birth to square how much children know. And this is all assuming one correction per word which as much as humans are great learners seems like a very dubious assumption. I don't know what else to tell you other than this obviously isn't happening.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > And this is all assuming one correction per word which as much as humans are great learners seems like a very dubious assumption. I assume much less than one correction per word. Corrections are to fix when the kids made a mistake when they mimic others, kids doesn't make mistakes for every word so you don't need to correct every word. As I said, bulk of learning is from mimicking, but they will make a lot of mistakes when mimicking so to become good they need corrections. When I see parents with kids I see them correcting their kids all the time, correcting misunderstandings or fixing pronunciations or grammar issues etc. You can notice that parents use a specific voice when they correct the pronunciation, and the kid gets that the parent tried to correct their pronunciation from it, that happens quite a lot with small kids. You don't say "this is how to pronounce X", our genes seem to encode a way to communicate pronunciation to others to help correct mistakes. Kids also correct each other in this way, which helps make the learning more robust even when adults aren't around. All humans has instincts to correct others so I don't think any culture fails to do this.