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Ugh, it is beyond depressing to imagine Apple bigwigs sitting around discussing ways to make absolutely certain teens keep getting ostracized until they buy the

Ugh, it is beyond depressing to imagine Apple bigwigs sitting around discussing ways to make absolutely certain teens keep getting ostracized until they buy their overpriced product.

averageRoyalty 3y ago
Given the majority of their users don't care about that, it seems unlikely to be an accurate portrayal of the internal discussions.
- standardUser 3y ago
  You don't think Apple brass is doing everything in their power to convince non-iPhone users to switch to an iPhone? Every excluded teen is another potential customer and to pretend they don't know that is beyond naïve.
  - frumper 3y ago
    I doubt anyone is shocked that Apple execs want to sell more Apple products. They are paid very well to do that.
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    I do, but the group that consists purely of American teenagers (even if it's 100% of them), is one of many demos, and a relatively small one globally.
- rezonant 3y ago
  Do you have data about that or are you assuming you and your friends are representative of the majority of users? It seems like one side of the debate says "I have experienced this, and the product features seem to encourage this behavior" and the other side says "No one really does this, you just have a few insane friends who happen to use iOS". Feels like gaslighting when you've experienced this sort of behavior yourself, and not even from tweens who aren't well adjusted to the world, from your middle aged and up friends and family who are bought into that ecosystem.
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    I am not refering to myself or my friends at all. That said, I've only seen this green vs blue debate reported on in the context of American teens. Even if it is accurate in that group (questionable), that group make up a tiny portion of global smartphone users. Even if the actual group who care are double that, it's still tiny. As such, it seems unlikely this is such a critical thing that Apple bigwigs are sitting around discussing this group.
StressedDev 3y ago
If someone is ostracizing you because you do not own an iPhone, you probably want to avoid that person. I have never met anyone who would do this and frankly, only an extremely nasty person would do this. I am mean seriously, why ostracized someone because they use a different type of phone?
- Aeglaecia 3y ago
  I admire the surety in children applying logic to their behaviour
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  Do you forget being a teenager? /s It's not simply a MeanGirls experience of not being cool enough. Most Americans don't use or have 3rd party apps like WhatsApp, so most people will fall-back to SMS, which is objectively a much worse experience. I feel like the adult equivalent is getting group dinner with a friend with severe allergies or dietary restrictions. You care about your friend, and you want to invite them, but the effort to include them is high and sometimes you want to try a restaurant you know they can't eat at, so you skip the invite. I'm a vegetarian, and I know my friends skip me outright in the steakhouse dinners. 50% of Americans have an iPhone, and that is even higher for teenagers (almost 90%). That means >50% of people have this superior group functionality built-in (can't beat defaults). That means for teenagers, most of your friends will have iMessages, and most will be able to do effortless group chats, and its a statistical dice-roll to see if someone doesn't have an iPhone. You become "that guy" that causing disruption, and you'll 100% be ignored sporadically. Again, the issue isn't "I don't wanna see green bubbles", the issue is "I don't want to bother with a third party app for this conversation". Since most people don't regularly use 3rd party messaging apps, there's a coordination issue to be solved picking the app and confirming everyone has it, OR falling back to SMS which is pretty messy. The alternative is to skip one friend and just fill them in later. Sometimes it's easier, it's not an elitist attempt to ostracize.
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    This is an adulting problem. Most of my adult friends use WhatsApp around me. So, our kids use WhatsApp because that is how they communicate with us. So, the "actual" solution is to start using WhatsApp (or whatever) and get your friends to do it. Then force your kids to do it ... then bam, iMessage no longer matters.

Ugh, it is beyond depressing to imagine Apple bigwigs sitting around discussing ways to make absolutely certain teens keep getting ostracized until they buy their overpriced product.

averageRoyalty 3y ago

Given the majority of their users don't care about that, it seems unlikely to be an accurate portrayal of the internal discussions.

standardUser 3y ago
You don't think Apple brass is doing everything in their power to convince non-iPhone users to switch to an iPhone? Every excluded teen is another potential customer and to pretend they don't know that is beyond naïve.
- frumper 3y ago
  I doubt anyone is shocked that Apple execs want to sell more Apple products. They are paid very well to do that.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  I do, but the group that consists purely of American teenagers (even if it's 100% of them), is one of many demos, and a relatively small one globally.
rezonant 3y ago
Do you have data about that or are you assuming you and your friends are representative of the majority of users? It seems like one side of the debate says "I have experienced this, and the product features seem to encourage this behavior" and the other side says "No one really does this, you just have a few insane friends who happen to use iOS". Feels like gaslighting when you've experienced this sort of behavior yourself, and not even from tweens who aren't well adjusted to the world, from your middle aged and up friends and family who are bought into that ecosystem.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  I am not refering to myself or my friends at all. That said, I've only seen this green vs blue debate reported on in the context of American teens. Even if it is accurate in that group (questionable), that group make up a tiny portion of global smartphone users. Even if the actual group who care are double that, it's still tiny. As such, it seems unlikely this is such a critical thing that Apple bigwigs are sitting around discussing this group.

StressedDev 3y ago

If someone is ostracizing you because you do not own an iPhone, you probably want to avoid that person. I have never met anyone who would do this and frankly, only an extremely nasty person would do this. I am mean seriously, why ostracized someone because they use a different type of phone?

Aeglaecia 3y ago
I admire the surety in children applying logic to their behaviour
vineyardmike 3y ago
Do you forget being a teenager? /s It's not simply a MeanGirls experience of not being cool enough. Most Americans don't use or have 3rd party apps like WhatsApp, so most people will fall-back to SMS, which is objectively a much worse experience. I feel like the adult equivalent is getting group dinner with a friend with severe allergies or dietary restrictions. You care about your friend, and you want to invite them, but the effort to include them is high and sometimes you want to try a restaurant you know they can't eat at, so you skip the invite. I'm a vegetarian, and I know my friends skip me outright in the steakhouse dinners. 50% of Americans have an iPhone, and that is even higher for teenagers (almost 90%). That means >50% of people have this superior group functionality built-in (can't beat defaults). That means for teenagers, most of your friends will have iMessages, and most will be able to do effortless group chats, and its a statistical dice-roll to see if someone doesn't have an iPhone. You become "that guy" that causing disruption, and you'll 100% be ignored sporadically. Again, the issue isn't "I don't wanna see green bubbles", the issue is "I don't want to bother with a third party app for this conversation". Since most people don't regularly use 3rd party messaging apps, there's a coordination issue to be solved picking the app and confirming everyone has it, OR falling back to SMS which is pretty messy. The alternative is to skip one friend and just fill them in later. Sometimes it's easier, it's not an elitist attempt to ostracize.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  This is an adulting problem. Most of my adult friends use WhatsApp around me. So, our kids use WhatsApp because that is how they communicate with us. So, the "actual" solution is to start using WhatsApp (or whatever) and get your friends to do it. Then force your kids to do it ... then bam, iMessage no longer matters.