3 ms·

it's Turing complete as long as the opposing player doesn't cast Force of Will ;-)

LorenDB 3y ago
I don't play MTG, but wouldn't that be like saying that your CPU is Turing-complete as long as you don't install a system that lets you manually modify data while it is in the CPU? In other words, it's Turing-complete but has a manual override to allow you to change/corrupt your data.
- airstrike 3y ago
  It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment since Force of Will is notorious from preventing opponents from playing their perfectly structured plan even when they think they've accounted for the target player not being able to cast an instant counter (which traditionally was the case when the target player has no mana available, since most counters cost mana)... so I guess I'm just saying it's not guaranteed to work every time you draw the perfect Turing-complete hand setup because you may be foiled by a counter you don't expect MTG has "stacks", and cards are cast-and-resolved in two separate steps. Which means cards are all cast in sequenced but then resolved in the reverse order they were cast. For example, if Player 1 casts spells A, B, C, and then Player 2 casts instant card D which reads ("cancel the prior spell") in response to Player 1's casting of C, then D resolves by popping C off the stack without C impacting the game at all, then B and A resolve
CGamesPlay 3y ago
The way this is set up, if the player in question starts their turn with the needed cards, and isn’t under any enchantments, then after the turn finishes neither player can make any decisions at all. So if the player in question has the first turn, they can choose to start the machine, which will proceed to either finish in a victory, or not finish causing a draw.
- airstrike 3y ago
  one can cast Force of Will (or any `instant` card, really, but that's just a well-known counter that doesn't (necessarily) cost any mana) during the other player's turn. so even if the other player drew the perfect hand, one could counter any of his spells to break the combo early and prevent it from working there's a chance they could recover from it, but one could always cast another Force of Will...

I don't play MTG, but wouldn't that be like saying that your CPU is Turing-complete as long as you don't install a system that lets you manually modify data while it is in the CPU? In other words, it's Turing-complete but has a manual override to allow you to change/corrupt your data.

airstrike 3y ago
It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment since Force of Will is notorious from preventing opponents from playing their perfectly structured plan even when they think they've accounted for the target player not being able to cast an instant counter (which traditionally was the case when the target player has no mana available, since most counters cost mana)... so I guess I'm just saying it's not guaranteed to work every time you draw the perfect Turing-complete hand setup because you may be foiled by a counter you don't expect MTG has "stacks", and cards are cast-and-resolved in two separate steps. Which means cards are all cast in sequenced but then resolved in the reverse order they were cast. For example, if Player 1 casts spells A, B, C, and then Player 2 casts instant card D which reads ("cancel the prior spell") in response to Player 1's casting of C, then D resolves by popping C off the stack without C impacting the game at all, then B and A resolve

CGamesPlay 3y ago

The way this is set up, if the player in question starts their turn with the needed cards, and isn’t under any enchantments, then after the turn finishes neither player can make any decisions at all. So if the player in question has the first turn, they can choose to start the machine, which will proceed to either finish in a victory, or not finish causing a draw.

airstrike 3y ago
one can cast Force of Will (or any `instant` card, really, but that's just a well-known counter that doesn't (necessarily) cost any mana) during the other player's turn. so even if the other player drew the perfect hand, one could counter any of his spells to break the combo early and prevent it from working there's a chance they could recover from it, but one could always cast another Force of Will...