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>Combined MPG of 19. 224 horsepower out of a V8. The 3-cylinder turbo Nissan rogue is only short 20HP of that number. No plausible buyer of a large traditional

>Combined MPG of 19. 224 horsepower out of a V8. The 3-cylinder turbo Nissan rogue is only short 20HP of that number. No plausible buyer of a large traditional American sedan is concerned about engine specific output. They want plenty of torque at low, low RPMs (a properly-implemented diesel would've done well), and an engine that sounds right when revved, with the requisite # of cylinders (8). >Huge size and weight for a relatively cramped interior. A Crown Victoria is >about the same weight as a Kia Telluride 3-row SUV and it is about a foot >longer, despite having less interior/cargo space. Kia's online builder does not show where one selects the option for either a split bench front seat, or a shift lever on the steering column. All of that space...to waste on a center console. >The Telluride has a naturally aspirated V6 that gets 291 HP with fuel economy >at 22mpg combined in a box on wheels SUV. You can easily find 4 cylinder turbo >vehicles that vastly exceed the power output of the Crown Vic’s V8. Once again, stratospherically irrelevant to anyone in the market for this type of vehicle. The Ford Modular V8 series requires regular unleaded, has parts available ...everywhere...; and is with routine (and cheap) maintenance capable of going 400K without having so much as the cam-covers regasketed. Kia's recent Theta-II series GDI turbo 4s don't leave me quite so confident in their long-term reliability, especially if you're always wringing all possible output out of them. >In what universe would you buy a Crown Vic? The universe where in the early 1990s, my grandparents and their friends existed, had the opportunity to buy more sophisticated (complicated) foreign vehicles, and did not.

devilbunny 3y ago
> The universe where in the early 1990s, my grandparents and their friends existed, had the opportunity to buy more sophisticated (complicated) foreign vehicles, and did not. They're enormous, hard to park, and by no means performance vehicles. But I've ridden in exactly one Lincoln Town Car, and let me tell you, it was a dream. It's not a sexy car. It's not a performance vehicle (in standard civilian models). It's ridiculous for one person. But if you need to transport four adults in absolute comfort and luxury, you couldn't do it better with anything else that was around at the time except maybe a Lexus LS or Mercedes S class.
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dangus 3y ago
What buyer of traditional American sedans are we talking about here? There don't seem to be any. The Malibu is the last gasoline-powered American big 3 sedan on sale, period. The rest are all discontinued. All of them. Nobody is in the market for this type of vehicle, that's my point. For one thing, you're on a different planet if you think the split bench is highly desired. Nobody wants a middle seat and when you can get an entire third row in a vehicle that is shorter than a Vic. What parents actually want their child sitting in between them in the front seat? The closest thing to a family sedan or SUV where you can get a split bench is the F-150, and the only reason it has that option is because of its heritage as a work truck. By the way, every other vehicle on sale takes regular unleaded, has parts available, has an engine that lasts hundreds of thousands of miles (especially Camrys, Accords, RAV4s). That's not a unique feature to the Crown Vic. I chose a big Kia SUV as a comparison but, man, if you choose some of the most well-regarded top sellers that are in a more similar sedan or mid-size SUV type of market like a Toyota RAV4, Camry, or Accord, the gulf between those vehicels and the Vic gets even wider. For example, a modern Accord is a big sedan, and you say that people who like big sedans want a lot of low-end torque...I mean, hello, have you heard of hybrids? The current Accord hybrid is a huge sedan and gets over double the MPG of a Crown Vic (41/46 MPG), and you don't get much more low-end torque than an electric motor. Fun fact: The Mercury Marauder, the "muscle car" version of the Crown Vic, was actually SLOWER than the V6 Honda Accord when it launched. Yes, even the V6 Accord that was sold back then. Another example: The Toyota Sienna, has so close to double the MPG of the Crown Vic (36 combined), is basically a cargo ship inside, 7 adult passengers plus a massive amount of cargo comfortably. If I have a family of 5 or 6, why am I getting a Crown Vic over that? The universe in the 1990s was actually the universe when Toyota and Honda started eating the big 3's lunch. Today's universe is one where the Big 3's marketshare is being whittled down further by EV startups, Korean brands, next on the block will be Chinese brands. All the big 3 seem to be able to do is discontinue their cars and double down on chicken tax money printing machines. I think in 2005 or so you could make that argument that the Crown Vic held its own for a certain use case. Sure, it was easy to work on, and parts were all over the place, and at that time it wasn't really so abnormal to barely get 20MPG in a large car. But today, the Crown Vic is like a foreign object on the road, more similar to classic cars from 50 years ago than the type of car a typical person is looking to buy today.
RecycledEle 3y ago
> No plausible buyer of a large traditional American sedan is concerned about engine specific output. Everyone I ever knew who owned a traditional American sedan knew exactly how much horsepower their car was rated at. They knew exactly the displacement of their engine, and what the part number for it was. Was it an LS2 V8 that put out 260 HP (10 HP less than the LT, but much more torque.)

devilbunny 3y ago

> The universe where in the early 1990s, my grandparents and their friends existed, had the opportunity to buy more sophisticated (complicated) foreign vehicles, and did not. They're enormous, hard to park, and by no means performance vehicles. But I've ridden in exactly one Lincoln Town Car, and let me tell you, it was a dream. It's not a sexy car. It's not a performance vehicle (in standard civilian models). It's ridiculous for one person. But if you need to transport four adults in absolute comfort and luxury, you couldn't do it better with anything else that was around at the time except maybe a Lexus LS or Mercedes S class.

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dangus 3y ago

What buyer of traditional American sedans are we talking about here? There don't seem to be any. The Malibu is the last gasoline-powered American big 3 sedan on sale, period. The rest are all discontinued. All of them. Nobody is in the market for this type of vehicle, that's my point. For one thing, you're on a different planet if you think the split bench is highly desired. Nobody wants a middle seat and when you can get an entire third row in a vehicle that is shorter than a Vic. What parents actually want their child sitting in between them in the front seat? The closest thing to a family sedan or SUV where you can get a split bench is the F-150, and the only reason it has that option is because of its heritage as a work truck. By the way, every other vehicle on sale takes regular unleaded, has parts available, has an engine that lasts hundreds of thousands of miles (especially Camrys, Accords, RAV4s). That's not a unique feature to the Crown Vic. I chose a big Kia SUV as a comparison but, man, if you choose some of the most well-regarded top sellers that are in a more similar sedan or mid-size SUV type of market like a Toyota RAV4, Camry, or Accord, the gulf between those vehicels and the Vic gets even wider. For example, a modern Accord is a big sedan, and you say that people who like big sedans want a lot of low-end torque...I mean, hello, have you heard of hybrids? The current Accord hybrid is a huge sedan and gets over double the MPG of a Crown Vic (41/46 MPG), and you don't get much more low-end torque than an electric motor. Fun fact: The Mercury Marauder, the "muscle car" version of the Crown Vic, was actually SLOWER than the V6 Honda Accord when it launched. Yes, even the V6 Accord that was sold back then. Another example: The Toyota Sienna, has so close to double the MPG of the Crown Vic (36 combined), is basically a cargo ship inside, 7 adult passengers plus a massive amount of cargo comfortably. If I have a family of 5 or 6, why am I getting a Crown Vic over that? The universe in the 1990s was actually the universe when Toyota and Honda started eating the big 3's lunch. Today's universe is one where the Big 3's marketshare is being whittled down further by EV startups, Korean brands, next on the block will be Chinese brands. All the big 3 seem to be able to do is discontinue their cars and double down on chicken tax money printing machines. I think in 2005 or so you could make that argument that the Crown Vic held its own for a certain use case. Sure, it was easy to work on, and parts were all over the place, and at that time it wasn't really so abnormal to barely get 20MPG in a large car. But today, the Crown Vic is like a foreign object on the road, more similar to classic cars from 50 years ago than the type of car a typical person is looking to buy today.

RecycledEle 3y ago

> No plausible buyer of a large traditional American sedan is concerned about engine specific output. Everyone I ever knew who owned a traditional American sedan knew exactly how much horsepower their car was rated at. They knew exactly the displacement of their engine, and what the part number for it was. Was it an LS2 V8 that put out 260 HP (10 HP less than the LT, but much more torque.)