3 ms·
The QA culture has to be there, not just dictates that the QA has final say. I've seen companies where that's true and it was still trash because the QA were m
by PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
The QA culture has to be there, not just dictates that the QA has final say.
I've seen companies where that's true and it was still trash because the QA were mostly low-paid contract workers who only did exactly what they were told and no more.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoWorked at a company where QA had the final say - and that was by far the most toxic / worst environment I have ever been in. QA also REFUSED to let developers write automation tests, also REFUSED to let us run them ourselves. What a nightmare. YMMV, but just having the final say is not a silver bullet for sure.
- mikestew 3y agoThat’s not because “QA had the final say”, it’s because your QA team were ass clowns. Any QA team that discourages dev from writing or running tests needs to be burnt to ground and rebuilt.
- ponector 3y agoUnless dev is switching to write test 100% of time and become a tester it is highly not recommended to let developers write tests. That QA was not a clown, they've seen some shit... Would you let QA to write features in your production code?
- ahtihn 3y agoTest code is just code. If you can write test code you can write production code. If you can write production code you can write tests. If your concern is that devs don't have the right mindset for testing, you can have them collaborate with a QA specialist to define the test cases and review the test implementation.
- ponector 3y agoIn theory yes. In practice, devs will not write good tests for their features, QA will be kept away from committing to production code. Btw, if it is just code - why developers cannot implement features without bugs? No need in QA in such ideal world.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agobetter yet, developers write their own tests, QA write their own tests. QA is a safety net, but they are not the first line of defense.
- mdavidn 3y agoDevelopers need to write tests so they understand how to structure the application in a manner that can be tested. The test engineer brings a fresh set of eyes and different expectations about how the application should work. That's valuable too.
- NegativeK 3y agoI spent a long time in QA. Devs that don't test their own code are usually wasting the QA team's time with garbage. It also tends to cultivate (or is a symptom of) an environment where groups are throwing projects over the wall, so to speak, without tightly integrating QA into the process. This wastes significant amounts of time.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agothat's exactly what was being described, moat building. It's political rather than effective.
- VHRanger 3y agoYou see that with devops often. When they are incentives to block stuff instead of enabling the product they become the roadblock team. It's why Google has SRE instead of devops people largely
- mlrtime 3y agoSRE's through Error Budgets can also block stuff. They just use a different tool and metric. Also, the SREs should be knowledgable enough to work on the fix, not just block.
- Aachen 3y agothis is the internet, where saying a thing doesn't make it true. have at your claims good sir.