4 ms·

Not sure what "open" means here, because it does not mean open source.

by glutamate 3y ago

memset 3y ago
How does it not? https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud
- glutamate 3y ago
  Open source does not mean "I can read the source code". Open source means release under an open source license and this is not the case here.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    But as you said yourself the claim isn't 'open source', it's 'open', so...what do you want really? I understand this complaint (I get both sides really) when it's a non OSI licence being called 'open source', but you can't just start extending that to the single words 'open' and 'source' too. 'I don't know what "source available" means, because it certainly doesn't mean available under open source licence', etc.
herval 3y ago
Are u saying the code linked isn’t from the thing itself?
- glutamate 3y ago
  I'm saying that code linked is not open source licensed
  - herval 3y ago
    It.. is?
chris1993 3y ago
The source is available (https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud) and the license says it's free to use so long as you don't use it to run a hosted service. It looks fairly 'open'?
umur 3y ago
It means that our source code is open and transparent to all of our users. You can use it for free, modify it, or even re-distribute it - the main restriction is that you are not offering it as a managed service to third parties. If you have a particular use-case in mind that you need but feel is limited, please let us know. Happy to talk through it and see how we can help.
- glutamate 3y ago
  I'm not really a prospective big user of this category; but i think your project looks super cool and you obviously know your stuff engineering-wise. I think the use of no-hosting clause is super ambiguous here because the nature of the project itself is hosting and providing managed services of VMs, postgres etc for users - so anyone using ubicloud is in some sense providing a managed or hosted service. How about licensing under GPL or AGPL with a commercial license option? Corporations are so GPL-phobic that they would probably pay you for a commercial license.
  - umur 3y ago
    Ah, I see. The key part above is "to third parties". If you're using ubicloud to provide a managed/hosted service for yourself, or your company, that's wonderful. You could even be a massive organization and do that. It's just that you are not providing the managed service to other parties such as your customers - essentially, that you're not a hosting provider re-selling the software.
    - glutamate 3y ago
      The ambiguity is in who is a third party. If I am a small digital agency and I have a hetzner server with ubicloud and I use it to host my clients websites, e.g 10 small businesses pay me $200/m each to host their wordpress websites, are they third parties? Can I do this?
      - fdr 3y ago
        This, with virtual certainty, permitted. I am a founder of Ubicloud, so, I suppose you can take that to the bank. For guidelines, see: https://www.elastic.co/licensing/elastic-license/faq https://www.elastic.co/licensing/elastic-license/faq Text: I'm using Elasticsearch to put a search box on my cat-picture SaaS product. This is permitted under ELv2. Meow! I'm a contractor setting up Elasticsearch and Kibana for my clients to use internally. This is permitted under ELv2, because you are not providing the software as a managed service. My cat-picture SaaS product shows view-only Kibana dashboards of analytics on searches and views. This is permitted under ELv2. The use of Kibana in this case is limited and this does not represent access to a substantial portion of the functionality of Kibana. I am a Managed Service Provider (MSP) running Elasticsearch and Kibana for my customers. If your customers do not access Elasticsearch and Kibana, this is permitted under ELv2. If your customers do have access to substantial portions of the functionality of either Elasticsearch and Kibana as part of your service, this may not be permitted. I provide Elasticsearch and Kibana as a service, where my customers have direct access to substantial portions of the Elasticsearch APIs and Kibana UI. This use is not permitted under the ELv2. Please reach out to us to discuss your options. If you have questions about your specific scenario, please reach out to us at elastic_license@elastic.co.

Not sure what "open" means here, because it does not mean open source.

memset 3y ago

How does it not? https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud

glutamate 3y ago
Open source does not mean "I can read the source code". Open source means release under an open source license and this is not the case here.
- OJFord 3y ago
  But as you said yourself the claim isn't 'open source', it's 'open', so...what do you want really? I understand this complaint (I get both sides really) when it's a non OSI licence being called 'open source', but you can't just start extending that to the single words 'open' and 'source' too. 'I don't know what "source available" means, because it certainly doesn't mean available under open source licence', etc.

herval 3y ago

Are u saying the code linked isn’t from the thing itself?

glutamate 3y ago
I'm saying that code linked is not open source licensed
- herval 3y ago
  It.. is?

chris1993 3y ago

The source is available (https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud) and the license says it's free to use so long as you don't use it to run a hosted service. It looks fairly 'open'?

umur 3y ago

It means that our source code is open and transparent to all of our users. You can use it for free, modify it, or even re-distribute it - the main restriction is that you are not offering it as a managed service to third parties. If you have a particular use-case in mind that you need but feel is limited, please let us know. Happy to talk through it and see how we can help.

glutamate 3y ago
I'm not really a prospective big user of this category; but i think your project looks super cool and you obviously know your stuff engineering-wise. I think the use of no-hosting clause is super ambiguous here because the nature of the project itself is hosting and providing managed services of VMs, postgres etc for users - so anyone using ubicloud is in some sense providing a managed or hosted service. How about licensing under GPL or AGPL with a commercial license option? Corporations are so GPL-phobic that they would probably pay you for a commercial license.
- umur 3y ago
  Ah, I see. The key part above is "to third parties". If you're using ubicloud to provide a managed/hosted service for yourself, or your company, that's wonderful. You could even be a massive organization and do that. It's just that you are not providing the managed service to other parties such as your customers - essentially, that you're not a hosting provider re-selling the software.
  - glutamate 3y ago
    The ambiguity is in who is a third party. If I am a small digital agency and I have a hetzner server with ubicloud and I use it to host my clients websites, e.g 10 small businesses pay me $200/m each to host their wordpress websites, are they third parties? Can I do this?
    - fdr 3y ago
      This, with virtual certainty, permitted. I am a founder of Ubicloud, so, I suppose you can take that to the bank. For guidelines, see: https://www.elastic.co/licensing/elastic-license/faq https://www.elastic.co/licensing/elastic-license/faq Text: I'm using Elasticsearch to put a search box on my cat-picture SaaS product. This is permitted under ELv2. Meow! I'm a contractor setting up Elasticsearch and Kibana for my clients to use internally. This is permitted under ELv2, because you are not providing the software as a managed service. My cat-picture SaaS product shows view-only Kibana dashboards of analytics on searches and views. This is permitted under ELv2. The use of Kibana in this case is limited and this does not represent access to a substantial portion of the functionality of Kibana. I am a Managed Service Provider (MSP) running Elasticsearch and Kibana for my customers. If your customers do not access Elasticsearch and Kibana, this is permitted under ELv2. If your customers do have access to substantial portions of the functionality of either Elasticsearch and Kibana as part of your service, this may not be permitted. I provide Elasticsearch and Kibana as a service, where my customers have direct access to substantial portions of the Elasticsearch APIs and Kibana UI. This use is not permitted under the ELv2. Please reach out to us to discuss your options. If you have questions about your specific scenario, please reach out to us at elastic_license@elastic.co.