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FTC investigating Adobe over making it too hard to cancel subscriptions

67 points by CharlesW 3y ago

drooby 3y ago
Oh... glad to see. I just wrote a pissed off feedback message in their unsubscribe page last night. I accidentally signed up for a "yearly subscription that bills monthly"... I misread it and thought it was just a monthly subscription.. and get this.. if I cancel early I get billed the full yearly amount.... AND there is no way to turn off auto renew.. so now I have to set my own reminder at the end of year to cancel my subscription, and if I forget I need to pay for another "yearly subscription billed monthly".. that I cannot cancel without a fee. Abusive BullSh**
- crazygringo 3y ago
  I don't get it. Why not just cancel now? You're paying for the whole year either way. I don't understand why you have to set a calendar reminder. Sorry if I'm missing a detail here.
  - borg16 3y ago
    it might be possible that you also lose the benefits, in which case that's a terrible customer experience
    - crazygringo 3y ago
      So I just looked it up and yeah, if you cancel early you have to pay 50% (not 100%) of the remaining year, and yes you lose access immediately. So that's the detail I was missing. (And indeed, you can't actually turn off yearly auto-renew until the last month of any year, which is horrendous and feels like it ought to be a highly illegal policy. Hence the calendar reminder. I would be furious too.)
      - dumpsterdiver 3y ago
        > And indeed, you can't actually turn off yearly auto-renew until the last month of any year This was conspicuously missing from the article, and is by far the most egregious behavior. Over the years I have personally dealt with it several times, and it’s so disgusting. Like if you look at the words in print it’s almost hard to make them compute because the phrase seems at odds with itself, “they do not allow you to disable auto-renew until the final month of your subscription.”
- southernplaces7 3y ago
  You really can't just block them from that card and be done with it? Or switch payment methods to a card you can block and then simply not pay? Abusive bullshit indeed.
  - kirykl 3y ago
    Canceling the payment method, easiest if using a virtual card, in the past has resulting in them just canceling service and the full year obligation
- stuaxo 3y ago
  Depending on where you are based the law may give you a cooling off period during which you can cancel a subscription which overrides this.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  So I just looked it up, and there's apparently a trick which lets you get out of your year-long contract, because you can change plans and then you have 14 days to cancel your new plan: https://prodesigntools.com/guide-to-change-cancel-creative-cloud.html https://prodesigntools.com/guide-to-change-cancel-creative-c... It sucks to have to jump through hoops -- this is not defending Adobe in any way -- but hopefully it helps you personally? (I guess it's kind of like hotels that don't let you cancel the day before, but will allow you to change your date to 2 weeks in the future, and then you call back the next day to cancel that, and it's no problem because it's far enough out -- for anyone unfamiliar with that trick.)
- dsgnr 3y ago
  [dead]
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  I just found myself in this exact situation today. I picked up "a month" of Illustrator a couple months ago for a few tasks and went to cancel it today, only to discover that after paying for two months I will be billed close to $100 for canceling. The UI included a nice lecture about how Adobe had generously given me a significant discount in return for the annual commitment I have no recollection of making. Pretty sad, to see the tech company that put the cool symbology puzzle on corporate hq many years ago now applying their innovative efforts to devising ever-more effective anti-patterns. Somebody must have gotten a nice bonus for creating this revenue stream.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- abdullahkhalids 3y ago
  Same thing with gyms. I have no idea why such abuse takes years, sometimes decades to resolved by the executive or legislature.
- ilkke 3y ago
  I got so fed up with this that I've been determined to find a replacement ecosystem. I can now wholeheartedly recommend the Affinity suite that is not only subscription-free, but clearly shows the innovation cost of Adobe's business model. Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher replace Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign, and can seamlessly share files. Edit:typo
  - j7ake 3y ago
    Omg a one time payment for software? What is this the 90s. So refreshing.
  - djangelic 3y ago
    Same, Gimp and Inkscape have been more than adequate for everything I need.
qclibre22 3y ago
I think Congress should pass a law that if you send a registered letter to the legal department of these e-commerce companies with your name, address and credit card number with an order to drop the service then they have to process it and cancel your "subscription". Companies would be required to print out the address of their legal department on the ordering page and sign-up page. Right now if you complain to your credit card company they won'thelp you and will refer you to the company which won't help you.
- thfuran 3y ago
  That's too milquetoast to even be half assed. You must be able to unsubscribe by whatever mediums you can subscribe by and do so without any bullshit dark patterns trying to trick you into not unsubscribing.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
j7ake 3y ago
Adobe subscriptions are ridiculous. I only wanted to use it for one month. Ended up paying for a year. Figma has been much more pleasant. I fear the worst now that Adobe bought Figma.
- ilkke 3y ago
  Figma has its own problems, at least in a company/team setting. I'm not 100% certain how it happens, but it seems that when you follow a link without having an account, it offers to easily 'register' and then silently adds a new paid seat. We've first had this issue with Miro, and then discovered they took a cue from Figma. Admittedly it's even worse in Miro. In both cases we found out when the bill arrived. I fear it's on the way of becoming the norm.
xivusr 3y ago
Pretty annoyed with Adobe’s relentless greed. They should switch to something similar to JetBrains license model. Its absurd to pay a monthly subscription for a year and still not own a license for that version indefinitely. Furthermore, the defaults store your art/assets in their cloud, further trying to keep you beholden to maintaining an active license. Plain and simple greed serving their stakeholders and contempt for their paying customers.
ramijames 3y ago
I wrote about how infuriating this process is EIGHT YEARS AGO. https://medium.com/let-s-talk-design/bye-bye-adobe-3c3ba22c4ac0 https://medium.com/let-s-talk-design/bye-bye-adobe-3c3ba22c4...
- dorkwood 3y ago
  Interesting that they make you contact support to cancel your subscription, but don't make you contact support to sign up for one. I wonder why the discrepancy.
iancmceachern 3y ago
Do the New York Times next
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  NYT is now pretty easy. When they raise your subscription price at the end of the year, they will email you. Go to their "cancel subscription" link. Can't remember how I found it but it's not very hard. Then they lead you down a path, one step of which is to give a reason for unsubscribing. Select "Because the price went up." Keep going with "I really want to cancel" and eventually they will make you an offer to reset the price to what it was before (or less) for another year. I do this every year now. It's a stupid process and it takes a few steps but at least you don't have to call them on the phone any more.
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    Linkedin premium has the same trick, try to leave and you get 2 months half off
happytiger 3y ago
I cancelled all company subscriptions to Adobe after going through their cancellation process and realizing they were just straight up scamming me. Just no. Love me in don’t lock me in you fools. We just stopped doing business with them. Then they bought figma. And we had to figure out how to divest ourselves of Figma, which we are doing slowly. I really think they control too much of the market. Adobe needs to stop behaving badly.
- consumer451 3y ago
  > Adobe needs to stop behaving badly. Are there any good examples of a major company where a non-founder CEO was able to put off seeking profit in exchange for a "lofty" goal like this?
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    India's TaTa Group? From memory, they donate 2/3rd of profits to selected charities. Patagonia is similar, but I believe founding-CEO-directed. As for Adobe — GFk'd! I'm still keeping CS4 alive, offline, on legacy hardware =D
    - consumer451 3y ago
      Yeah, it really seems like without the gravitas of being a founding CEO, or having some sort of mandate from the board, attempting to do "the right thing" seems impossible in nearly all corps. I just realized this, and this possibly tangential, but the board with the biggest mandate in modern history, OpenAI, just tried to do "the right thing." Those people/ideas are now gone, and yesterday OpenAI announced a partnership with Axel Springer, Germany's version of News Corp, a hyper-political entity. I have a hard time believing that this would have occurred under the previous regime.
ayakang31415 3y ago
I sometimes think about a possible app idea that manages your monthly subscription payments (like Apple Pay but only deals with monthly subscription fees) which allows all the payments to set the same deadline all at once. Not only that, my idea was to have standardized contract and ToS that users find easy to navigate and understand that also allows subscription and cancellation through the app (generate some sort of token to allow you to receive the service immediately), not through the company website you pay for. I believe Apple already does this to an extent in their app store, but I have not seen any app that works for all platforms smoothly. Of course you need to have the subscription service companies to be on board, and maybe that is why it does not exist.
- jjeaff 3y ago
  Use something like privacy.com. you can generate a unique cc for each subscription. just go and cancel that virtual card number to stop paying for the service.
bell-cot 3y ago
> Adobe told investors it has been cooperating with FTC staff since June 2022... Obvious reaction: WTF is it taking 17+ months to resolve this?
mikecoles 3y ago
Did Adobe hire AOL's Chief Retention Officer?
wackycat 3y ago
Do the cable/internet companies next! Looking at you AT&T

67 points by CharlesW 3y ago

Oh... glad to see. I just wrote a pissed off feedback message in their unsubscribe page last night. I accidentally signed up for a "yearly subscription that bills monthly"... I misread it and thought it was just a monthly subscription.. and get this.. if I cancel early I get billed the full yearly amount.... AND there is no way to turn off auto renew.. so now I have to set my own reminder at the end of year to cancel my subscription, and if I forget I need to pay for another "yearly subscription billed monthly".. that I cannot cancel without a fee. Abusive BullSh**

crazygringo 3y ago
I don't get it. Why not just cancel now? You're paying for the whole year either way. I don't understand why you have to set a calendar reminder. Sorry if I'm missing a detail here.
- borg16 3y ago
  it might be possible that you also lose the benefits, in which case that's a terrible customer experience
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    So I just looked it up and yeah, if you cancel early you have to pay 50% (not 100%) of the remaining year, and yes you lose access immediately. So that's the detail I was missing. (And indeed, you can't actually turn off yearly auto-renew until the last month of any year, which is horrendous and feels like it ought to be a highly illegal policy. Hence the calendar reminder. I would be furious too.)
    - dumpsterdiver 3y ago
      > And indeed, you can't actually turn off yearly auto-renew until the last month of any year This was conspicuously missing from the article, and is by far the most egregious behavior. Over the years I have personally dealt with it several times, and it’s so disgusting. Like if you look at the words in print it’s almost hard to make them compute because the phrase seems at odds with itself, “they do not allow you to disable auto-renew until the final month of your subscription.”
southernplaces7 3y ago
You really can't just block them from that card and be done with it? Or switch payment methods to a card you can block and then simply not pay? Abusive bullshit indeed.
- kirykl 3y ago
  Canceling the payment method, easiest if using a virtual card, in the past has resulting in them just canceling service and the full year obligation
stuaxo 3y ago
Depending on where you are based the law may give you a cooling off period during which you can cancel a subscription which overrides this.
crazygringo 3y ago
So I just looked it up, and there's apparently a trick which lets you get out of your year-long contract, because you can change plans and then you have 14 days to cancel your new plan: https://prodesigntools.com/guide-to-change-cancel-creative-cloud.html https://prodesigntools.com/guide-to-change-cancel-creative-c... It sucks to have to jump through hoops -- this is not defending Adobe in any way -- but hopefully it helps you personally? (I guess it's kind of like hotels that don't let you cancel the day before, but will allow you to change your date to 2 weeks in the future, and then you call back the next day to cancel that, and it's no problem because it's far enough out -- for anyone unfamiliar with that trick.)
dsgnr 3y ago
[dead]
mustacheemperor 3y ago
I just found myself in this exact situation today. I picked up "a month" of Illustrator a couple months ago for a few tasks and went to cancel it today, only to discover that after paying for two months I will be billed close to $100 for canceling. The UI included a nice lecture about how Adobe had generously given me a significant discount in return for the annual commitment I have no recollection of making. Pretty sad, to see the tech company that put the cool symbology puzzle on corporate hq many years ago now applying their innovative efforts to devising ever-more effective anti-patterns. Somebody must have gotten a nice bonus for creating this revenue stream.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
Same thing with gyms. I have no idea why such abuse takes years, sometimes decades to resolved by the executive or legislature.
ilkke 3y ago
I got so fed up with this that I've been determined to find a replacement ecosystem. I can now wholeheartedly recommend the Affinity suite that is not only subscription-free, but clearly shows the innovation cost of Adobe's business model. Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher replace Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign, and can seamlessly share files. Edit:typo
- j7ake 3y ago
  Omg a one time payment for software? What is this the 90s. So refreshing.
- djangelic 3y ago
  Same, Gimp and Inkscape have been more than adequate for everything I need.

qclibre22 3y ago

I think Congress should pass a law that if you send a registered letter to the legal department of these e-commerce companies with your name, address and credit card number with an order to drop the service then they have to process it and cancel your "subscription". Companies would be required to print out the address of their legal department on the ordering page and sign-up page. Right now if you complain to your credit card company they won'thelp you and will refer you to the company which won't help you.

thfuran 3y ago
That's too milquetoast to even be half assed. You must be able to unsubscribe by whatever mediums you can subscribe by and do so without any bullshit dark patterns trying to trick you into not unsubscribing.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

j7ake 3y ago

Adobe subscriptions are ridiculous. I only wanted to use it for one month. Ended up paying for a year. Figma has been much more pleasant. I fear the worst now that Adobe bought Figma.

ilkke 3y ago
Figma has its own problems, at least in a company/team setting. I'm not 100% certain how it happens, but it seems that when you follow a link without having an account, it offers to easily 'register' and then silently adds a new paid seat. We've first had this issue with Miro, and then discovered they took a cue from Figma. Admittedly it's even worse in Miro. In both cases we found out when the bill arrived. I fear it's on the way of becoming the norm.

xivusr 3y ago

Pretty annoyed with Adobe’s relentless greed. They should switch to something similar to JetBrains license model. Its absurd to pay a monthly subscription for a year and still not own a license for that version indefinitely. Furthermore, the defaults store your art/assets in their cloud, further trying to keep you beholden to maintaining an active license. Plain and simple greed serving their stakeholders and contempt for their paying customers.

ramijames 3y ago

I wrote about how infuriating this process is EIGHT YEARS AGO. https://medium.com/let-s-talk-design/bye-bye-adobe-3c3ba22c4ac0 https://medium.com/let-s-talk-design/bye-bye-adobe-3c3ba22c4...

dorkwood 3y ago
Interesting that they make you contact support to cancel your subscription, but don't make you contact support to sign up for one. I wonder why the discrepancy.

iancmceachern 3y ago

Do the New York Times next

dreamcompiler 3y ago
NYT is now pretty easy. When they raise your subscription price at the end of the year, they will email you. Go to their "cancel subscription" link. Can't remember how I found it but it's not very hard. Then they lead you down a path, one step of which is to give a reason for unsubscribing. Select "Because the price went up." Keep going with "I really want to cancel" and eventually they will make you an offer to reset the price to what it was before (or less) for another year. I do this every year now. It's a stupid process and it takes a few steps but at least you don't have to call them on the phone any more.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Linkedin premium has the same trick, try to leave and you get 2 months half off

happytiger 3y ago

I cancelled all company subscriptions to Adobe after going through their cancellation process and realizing they were just straight up scamming me. Just no. Love me in don’t lock me in you fools. We just stopped doing business with them. Then they bought figma. And we had to figure out how to divest ourselves of Figma, which we are doing slowly. I really think they control too much of the market. Adobe needs to stop behaving badly.

consumer451 3y ago
> Adobe needs to stop behaving badly. Are there any good examples of a major company where a non-founder CEO was able to put off seeking profit in exchange for a "lofty" goal like this?
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  India's TaTa Group? From memory, they donate 2/3rd of profits to selected charities. Patagonia is similar, but I believe founding-CEO-directed. As for Adobe — GFk'd! I'm still keeping CS4 alive, offline, on legacy hardware =D
  - consumer451 3y ago
    Yeah, it really seems like without the gravitas of being a founding CEO, or having some sort of mandate from the board, attempting to do "the right thing" seems impossible in nearly all corps. I just realized this, and this possibly tangential, but the board with the biggest mandate in modern history, OpenAI, just tried to do "the right thing." Those people/ideas are now gone, and yesterday OpenAI announced a partnership with Axel Springer, Germany's version of News Corp, a hyper-political entity. I have a hard time believing that this would have occurred under the previous regime.

ayakang31415 3y ago

I sometimes think about a possible app idea that manages your monthly subscription payments (like Apple Pay but only deals with monthly subscription fees) which allows all the payments to set the same deadline all at once. Not only that, my idea was to have standardized contract and ToS that users find easy to navigate and understand that also allows subscription and cancellation through the app (generate some sort of token to allow you to receive the service immediately), not through the company website you pay for. I believe Apple already does this to an extent in their app store, but I have not seen any app that works for all platforms smoothly. Of course you need to have the subscription service companies to be on board, and maybe that is why it does not exist.

jjeaff 3y ago
Use something like privacy.com. you can generate a unique cc for each subscription. just go and cancel that virtual card number to stop paying for the service.

bell-cot 3y ago

> Adobe told investors it has been cooperating with FTC staff since June 2022... Obvious reaction: WTF is it taking 17+ months to resolve this?

mikecoles 3y ago

Did Adobe hire AOL's Chief Retention Officer?

wackycat 3y ago

Do the cable/internet companies next! Looking at you AT&T