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Vision Pro will change photography
- 50 3y ago> there is a whole new appreciation of being there And yet, the always unsuccessful attempt of the photograph: "To annihilate itself as medium, to be no longer a sign but the thing itself" (Barthes, Camera Lucida).
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoBarthes (and Sontag) were not photographers. Almost any photographer, or collector of photographs, would disagree with that goal.
- deafpolygon 3y agoVision Pro will do nothing of the sort. It just has features that serve to lock you in their platform.
- huytersd 3y agoI don’t think anyone minds the walled garden anymore. Infact people appreciate the mindless safety and security.
- deafpolygon 3y ago[flagged]
- dagmx 3y agoWhy is it always that people who bleet about mindless sheep who do so by denigrating anyone who chooses anything other than their own preferences.
- rpmisms 3y agoI hate mindless sheep, and if you disagree with me strongly and can defend your position from first principles, we can probably be good friends.
- danjc 3y agoSheep not sheeps. It's important that insults are grammatically sound, otherwise they are rendered comedic.
- deafpolygon 3y agoDid I forget my /s? Or how do you convey a joke?
- danjc 3y agoIt's the ambiguity that makes it good.
- shepherdjerred 3y agoHow so?
- deafpolygon 3y agoSame problem with iCloud Photo Library- fantastic app/platform, but incredibly difficult to leave. Things like facial recognition (it's very good), search (by person, year, or subject!) and live video are not easily duplicated in a cohesive package anywhere else. They lock you in with a few subtle features and make you feel like you need to keep it - and they target you where it's personal. Your photos. Did iCloud Photo Library change photography? I would say not. Most people take personal pictures with their phone. When you take pictures of your child with spatial video and get that little extra detail, then upsell a product like Vision Pro - you're most likely going to want to get one. You're also not likely to leave the walled garden if you have thousands of photos bundled up in there. Have you tried to export your photo library from iCloud Photo Library and take it elsewhere? A veritable nightmare. I have tried multiple times and failed. I have over 200GB of photos + videos (almost entirely personal photos with things around me and my family and friends). - Albums are given to you only in a csv format, not folders or anything useful of the sort. - Images are dumped all in one folder, not separated by something useful- like YYYY-MM-DD. - Live videos are dumped as .MP4 and indistinguishable from your normal videos. - The useful metadata from each photo is not saved 1:1. Comments, any adjustments and edits, etc. Edits just get dumped as another photo. Apple saves a set of metadata on top of the ones that are included with the image EXIF data and there are no EXIF data included with videos. Those stay in iCloud. I get it: you can't expect Apple to make it easy- but if their product is so good, then they wouldn't make it this hard.
- paradox460 3y agoAll of those features are present in both Plex and Google photos fwiw
- deafpolygon 3y agoWith Plex, you need to be your own sysadmin. With Google Photos, well, I wouldn't touch Google.
- crooked-v 3y agoThere's a lot of fluff here, but the comments I've seen on the subject from people who actually know what the heck they're talking about (for example, preexisting MR/VR enthusiasts) suggest that the "special" format here is just basic stereoscopic photography of the kind that already exists in about a million YouTube videos that anybody with a Quest 3 can already record and view, rather than anything new like actually encoding real depth info along with the image capture.
- gpm 3y agoMistaking the sophistication of the technology for it's relevance to people's lives is a classic HN error. Sure, dropbox is just a bash script that rsyncs files or whatever, but the presentation and interface surrounding that bash script can still be absolutely revolutionary in terms of how regular people interact with it. I don't have the experience to agree or disagree with the article's claims about the feelings evoked by Vision Pro's presentation of spatial video being a leap forward from what we are used to - but I feel pretty confident in saying that whether or not that is true doesn't depend on how novel the underlying image data is.
- crooked-v 3y agoIt's not the sophistocation vs. relevance part that bothers me... it's that the people writing these puff pieces clearly have no idea what already exists in the field of 3D media or any of the uses that people have already made of it. Or to put it another way, imagine articles about the original iPod written by people who obviously didn't even know that other MP3 players existed.
- azinman2 3y agoAnd yet the other ones never had the same impact because the execution wasn’t as good. The Diamond Rio has no brand value today and no current iteration. If you haven’t experienced what the phone can now capture and what playback on the Vision Pro is actually like, then I’d suggest reserving judgement.
- 3y ago
- deadbabe 3y agoThere is photography as documentation and photography as art. Photography as art will never be truly changed by new technologies. Shooting film and developing it yourself is by far the most romantic way to practice the art of photography. It is timeless.
- dagmx 3y agoPhotography as art is absolutely changed by new technologies. Firstly, you mention film but film itself is technology that greatly advanced throughout its life and enabled incredibly different forms of art. Secondly, technology like digital sensors have allowed for millions of people to make expressions of art that would not have been possible otherwise. Shooting film and developing it is romantic to some. But there’s nothing absolute about it.
- hulitu 3y ago> Secondly, technology like digital sensors have allowed for millions of people to make expressions of art that would not have been possible otherwise "Butt, this is art. " Mike Judge
- youcantcook 3y ago[dead]
- vsnf 3y agoDo you think it is perhaps somewhat elitist to suggest that photography that does not involve developing on film is somehow less artistic?
- plagiarist 3y agoMaybe? I'd love to see the use case of this thing but all I can think of is CAD software visualization for professionals who can afford a tool. To change photography it needs a large number of people wanting to take or view photos with it.
- crooked-v 3y ago> wanting to take I suspect their angle here will be to bake it in as a default, maybe with the iPhone 16, where at some point all iPhone photos will capture a 3D version by default and flatten them if exported to other formats (while keeping the 3D format if exported to something that can support them, like Facebook posts). That will make a large ecosystem of 3D photos pop into existence almost immediately.
- lowbloodsugar 3y agoIf this is as good as it gets, nobody will buy it.
- modeless 3y agoIt's a shame Google killed Cardboard Camera. You could capture awesome stereo 3D panoramas using only your regular phone camera, back in 2015! It captured a little audio clip too, which is a nice touch. Viewing stereo content in VR that you took yourself is definitely qualitatively different from looking at a gallery of your photos on a screen. Cardboard Camera can still be sideloaded from APKMirror. I don't know how to view the captures in VR these days, but I'm sure there's still some method.
- scheeseman486 3y agoQuest can do that stuff in it's browser. But I was never impressed with "VR" video and photography, it comes with most of the problems of Stereo 3D like fixed IPD and fixed perspective but adds more like stereo breaking whenever the viewer tilts their head.
- modeless 3y agoYeah I never saw much point in stereo content created by others due to the limitations you mention, and I wouldn't spend money on dedicated stereo capture devices. But Cardboard Camera costs $0, and it's a cool feeling to stand inside one of your own captures of a place you haven't been in a long time, or a place that doesn't exist anymore. Someday soon we'll be capturing and viewing gaussian splat scenes and videos and that will be the point where 3D captured content really becomes compelling for VR (outside the adult niche).
- noduerme 3y agoI've never been too impressed by it either. On the other hand, a friend of mine got one of these live transmitting 360 degree camera devices that streams to your phone and lets you move your phone around to pan on the live feed... took it to Vegas with us and handed it up to dancers on stage in a club who handed it around while they were dancing above a crowd, and the results were ridiculously good. He's looking forward to spending his later years reliving highlights of his life in VR via these videos. Would be nice if they were stereo, I guess, but the 360 aspect is much more important.
- doctoboggan 3y agoI think the true revolutionary change will be when we get easy to capture radiance fields or Gaussian splats. Being able to explore the “photo” with 6DOF will be a significant upgrade from normal 2d work. Stereoscopic 3d is interesting, but feels a little off putting when moving your head doesn’t move your location in the scene.
- mikewarot 3y agoLytro could have changed photography, but they went with an optics system that was about 6" too small in diameter. It needed to be something big and clunky, but capable of doing amazing things with the captured light fields. There wasn't enough change of perspective across the lens to be useful at the form factor they chose.
- IanCal 3y agoYou might be interested in it's bigger sibling, the 40k 11ft cinema camera https://www.lightfieldlab.com/blogposts/the-promise-of-light-field-cinematography https://www.lightfieldlab.com/blogposts/the-promise-of-light... I can't find a specific link to one I've seen but there's some great videos about this truly insane bit of tech.
- mikewarot 3y agoI've made images with a virtual light field bigger than that.. focus is incredibly short, which is awesome. These 2 images were derived from the same set of photos taken about 2 blocks away from the subjects in Chicago https://flic.kr/p/2n1uYqj https://flic.kr/p/2n1AhXa In this case the virtual aperture was about 20 feet. For most subjects 1 foot is more appropriate. It's a time intensive process, but cost nothing otherwise.
- consumer451 3y agoBased on my quick reading of TFA, an iPhone 15 Pro uses two sensors very close together for 3D, and the wide angle lens lowers the res to 1080p. I wonder if as a kludge, we will see a 3rd party app and dual iPhone holder which then creates a single 3D video/image, allowing more human-like pupillary distance at 8k from the two main sensors.
- causality0 3y agoI have yet to play a single game on it or do any kind of work on it I have already stated on multiple occasions that Vision Pro is going to be a device that redefines our relationship with visual media and content I despise people like this. They want to look like a visionary but when they turn out to be completely full of shit they face no reputational consequences.
- SLHamlet 3y agoOm is one of the Valley's most respected journalists, and specifically pertinent to this post, is also a great photographer: https://www.photosbyom.com/Collections/Recent-Works/ https://www.photosbyom.com/Collections/Recent-Works/
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- causality0 3y agoBeing a photographer makes him an expert on the cultural impact of $3500 VR headsets he's barely touched?
- GuardianCaveman 3y agoIt’s not a comprehensive review but an exciting feature he’s experienced that, based on his experience as a photographer, he thinks will be a huge deal.
- petre 3y agoEven if I don't necessarily agree with this piece, I really like his photography. Michael Kenna and to a lesser extent New Topographics influences. It shows he put a lot of work he put into it. Lovely. Thanks for sharing.
- FireBeyond 3y ago"is" might not be the case so much any more. He left journalism over a decade ago and has been in VC since. He's also one of a certain subset of writers who find it exceptionally difficult to write anything even mildly negative about Apple. He also wrote gushingly that the Vision Pro will revolutionize movies and we'll consume Hollywood content by sitting on the couch together, all watching our own Vision Pros. Hmm.
- scheeseman486 3y agoI'm interested in what Apple have cooking, but stereo + depthmap doesn't seem like enough information to accurately construct a perspective correct scene outside of a fairly narrow frustum. Maybe they use generative AI to fill the gaps? But what has come out about the format doesn't seem to indicate that, it's still fundamentally a stereo pair just with additional depth data from the depth sensor. I still see gaussian splats as the technique that will finally deliver on practical true spatial photography.
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y ago[flagged]
- petre 3y agoSure. Let's look back at history. Things that changed photography were the Kodak Brownie, 35 mm photography, the digital revolution and camera phones. So basically affordable image taking devices. If the device used to view the content is priced like the Vision Pro is, looks like scuba equipment and weights more than a pound, I quite doubt it would have much of an impact.
- d3w4s9 3y agoExactly. This will be fun for the 5 kids from rich families for 10 minutes and that's it. Far from a "revolution".
- bradknowles 3y agoThe product you've seen today is just the first generation. Not even the Model-T of its day. You have to think forward a bit to see what the product can become. And in that context, by making immersive 3D video a realistic possibility for customers, I can see this as a true paradigm shift in the same way that Smartphones were -- as kicked off by the first iPhone.
- benrutter 3y agoFor sure it'll be interesting to see how photographers use these new tools. I can't help but see this as the same "this will change everything" hype we saw with 3d movies a while back. There are definitely techniligies that afford new experssive avenues, and there are definitely ones that end up as interesting experiments and not much more. I have no idea how to tell them apart.
- saiya-jin 3y agoYeah if I had a cent for every 'revolutionary' thing some random guy on internet writes about (who is definitely not impartial due to extremely limited and guarded early access to it, I mean come on, we're adults here who understand cash flows, incentives and modern advertising). These kind of articles should be ignored for actual facts till after release when people with no skin in the game actually review it. Or shell out 3500 dollars and be a beta tester.
- anon23432343 3y agoNo it will not... at least not in a grand way... It will be used by a few for very niche. I bet AI generated video in a few years will be more important then this...
- ipsum2 3y agoHe keeps saying that the Vision Pro is 8k, but its actually 4kx4k per eye.
- new_user_final 3y agoFor more context 8k is 4k 4k 4k 4k
- wkat4242 3y agoYeah and because both displays project a lot of the same content it's effectively not much more than 4K. Still a jump higher than other headsets though.
- eurekin 3y agoFor those 3 people using it. I'm one of those HTC Vive owners that cannot tolerate prolonged usage (>5 minutes). If your product line enters market, where one of recommendations is "try little at first, increase a minute each day" for even using it, it won't have a broad appeal
- mvanbaak 3y agoThere’s a huge difference between virtual Reality like the vive and augmented reality like the vision pro
- eurekin 3y agoYeah, but the hot brick in front of my eyes looks similar. Don't get me wrong, I'm enthusiastic about that tech, but let's not get the overhype kill it. If they integrate some variant of a well performing 3d reconstruction (such as guassian splatting), it has a potential to impress. Still, In "professional photography" it won't make any dent.
- MikusR 3y agoVision pro is a VR device pretending to be augmented reality.
- LeafItAlone 3y agoPeople are willing to work for things that are worth it. Most people take time to learn new skills. The important piece is that it needs to be worth the effort. I switched to a split keyboard with a different layout because I was suffering from an RSI. It was worth me to take the time to relearn something I had done for decades to be able to continue typing. Most people don’t need to and get no benefit, so they don’t. Apple just needs to make a product that provides enough value that people are willing to deal with the initial hump of discomfort.
- d3w4s9 3y ago"are worth it" ok now please prove these gimmicks are worth the $3500 price tag
- bemmu 3y agoOn Quest 3 it’s interesting that it has good passthrough, but no way to record 3D passthrough videos and share them. Meta could basically do an early version of Strange Days right now, but they have chosen not to.
- lelag 3y agoIt would be a terrible experience for most users. It would not be like a 360 video where you can direct your gaze in the direction you want. It would be a stereoscopic 110 degrees videos where the viewpoint keeps changing to follow the original head movement of the person that recorded it. It would surely be a nauseating experience.
- helf 3y ago[dead]
- nikolay 3y agoNo, it wont! Cheap and massively-accessible inventions changed industries!
- pi-err 3y agoPretty sure this thread will be the slashdot equivalent of iPod launch.