6 ms·

I wish they would push hard for proper support in IOS for running extensions (or their own engine, etc)

by briffle 3y ago

ivanjermakov 3y ago
I think it's still against Apple's TOS, stating that every web browser must be based on WebKit.
- capitainenemo 3y ago
  Indeed. Mozilla can complain about it (and they have) but blaming them for the situation serves little purpose. It's entirely in Apple's court.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    There are probably laws in some country they can use to fight this, but that is a hard legal battle.
    - fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
      The US may be one of those countries depending on the result of the current Epic vs. Apple & Google cases.[0][1] [0] https://www.theverge.com/23994174/epic-google-trial-jury-verdict-monopoly-google-play https://www.theverge.com/23994174/epic-google-trial-jury-ver... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38607424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38607424
- temp0826 3y ago
  Why can Kagi's Orion browser support extensions on iOS? I recently switched from Firefox because lack of uBO caused huge beef for me and have zero regrets. I'm not paying for Kagi's search service (happy enough with DDG for the majority of my searches), but I can really appreciate their business model and mission (they seem genuine afaict).
  - mod50ack 3y ago
    Orion is built on webkit, both on desktop and mobile. It's possible to build WebExt support into a WebKit browser, as they've done. While I definitely prefer FF and Android, I can support the notion of Mozilla integrating extension support into WebKit on their iOS version of FF. But it would take a lot of effort to do that, and Firefox for iOS is ultimately just totally separate from any other Firefox (whereas Android and Desktop Firefox share the same innards).
    - tiltowait 3y ago
      Orion on desktop supports Firefox extensions, so is integration possible? (Not all are compatible.)
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Browsers on macOS can use custom rendering engines. On iOS, they have to all use Apple's provided version of it (which does not support WebExtensions by itself), so the two are not comparable at all.
        SushiHippie 3y ago
        Orion supports some extensions on IOS too https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features
    - temp0826 3y ago
      Interesting, I always thought the holdup was that third party things used in-app were expressly forbidden because they're not vetted by the app store onboarding process (in addition to the requirement of using webkit). Didn't occur to me that webkit could be extended to support webext either.
      - wharvle 3y ago
        There's long been a grey area for downloading new program logic as e.g. Javascript—the distinction between content and program can be rather fuzzy—and IIRC they made an explicit exception years back for certain categories.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  That's incredible. Just write anti-competitive behavior directly into the contract. No one will care.
  - nikeee 3y ago
    Actually, it has been mandated by the EU (and other regulators) that they have to allow other browser engines and AFAIK there are already teams at Mozilla/Google that are porting their respective engine to iOS. https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/
gloryjulio 3y ago
They can't push for that. Even chrome didn't get the engine deal. But EU is pushing for sideloading
worik 3y ago
I advise stopping the use of iOS
- sexy_seedbox 3y ago
  Throw that iPhone into the river!
- coldpie 3y ago
  Find me a decent Android phone with a screen around 5" and I will!
  - capitainenemo 3y ago
    Decent means a lot of things to different people. For me, the phone that checked all my personal boxes was the samsung xcover6 pro with a swappable battery but still waterproofed, multiple bindable physical buttons, and a ruggedised case. I'm guessing we'd have to know what you're looking for personally to find it :)
    - coldpie 3y ago
      6.6" screen. Too big! >I'm guessing we'd have to know what you're looking for personally to find it :) Like I said in the post, a screen about 5" big. iPhone Mini is the only phone on the market that even gets close (and it's still a little too big IMO), so I'm stuck here on iOS with no access to (real) Firefox :(
      - capitainenemo 3y ago
        Huh. Didn't realise it was so large. Well, it is ruggedised so it still fits well in my pocket without a case. Ok. I didn't realise that was your only requirement. There are a ton of phones out there. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplayInchesMax=5.1&sFormFactors=1,2,3,4,6,10,11&sOSes=2 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplay... here's everything with a screen of 5.1" or smaller. 30 android phones produced in last couple of years with that size. Feel free to adjust the phone finder search to your preferences. For example, here's the 14 phones with a screen size of 4.7" or smaller since you said your iphone was too big. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplayInchesMax=4.7&sFormFactors=1,2,3,4,6,10,11&sOSes=2 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplay...

I wish they would push hard for proper support in IOS for running extensions (or their own engine, etc)

ivanjermakov 3y ago

I think it's still against Apple's TOS, stating that every web browser must be based on WebKit.

capitainenemo 3y ago
Indeed. Mozilla can complain about it (and they have) but blaming them for the situation serves little purpose. It's entirely in Apple's court.
- bluGill 3y ago
  There are probably laws in some country they can use to fight this, but that is a hard legal battle.
  - fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
    The US may be one of those countries depending on the result of the current Epic vs. Apple & Google cases.[0][1] [0] https://www.theverge.com/23994174/epic-google-trial-jury-verdict-monopoly-google-play https://www.theverge.com/23994174/epic-google-trial-jury-ver... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38607424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38607424
temp0826 3y ago
Why can Kagi's Orion browser support extensions on iOS? I recently switched from Firefox because lack of uBO caused huge beef for me and have zero regrets. I'm not paying for Kagi's search service (happy enough with DDG for the majority of my searches), but I can really appreciate their business model and mission (they seem genuine afaict).
- mod50ack 3y ago
  Orion is built on webkit, both on desktop and mobile. It's possible to build WebExt support into a WebKit browser, as they've done. While I definitely prefer FF and Android, I can support the notion of Mozilla integrating extension support into WebKit on their iOS version of FF. But it would take a lot of effort to do that, and Firefox for iOS is ultimately just totally separate from any other Firefox (whereas Android and Desktop Firefox share the same innards).
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    Orion on desktop supports Firefox extensions, so is integration possible? (Not all are compatible.)
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Browsers on macOS can use custom rendering engines. On iOS, they have to all use Apple's provided version of it (which does not support WebExtensions by itself), so the two are not comparable at all.
      - SushiHippie 3y ago
        Orion supports some extensions on IOS too https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features
  - temp0826 3y ago
    Interesting, I always thought the holdup was that third party things used in-app were expressly forbidden because they're not vetted by the app store onboarding process (in addition to the requirement of using webkit). Didn't occur to me that webkit could be extended to support webext either.
    - wharvle 3y ago
      There's long been a grey area for downloading new program logic as e.g. Javascript—the distinction between content and program can be rather fuzzy—and IIRC they made an explicit exception years back for certain categories.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
That's incredible. Just write anti-competitive behavior directly into the contract. No one will care.
- nikeee 3y ago
  Actually, it has been mandated by the EU (and other regulators) that they have to allow other browser engines and AFAIK there are already teams at Mozilla/Google that are porting their respective engine to iOS. https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/07/new-iphone-browsers/

gloryjulio 3y ago

They can't push for that. Even chrome didn't get the engine deal. But EU is pushing for sideloading

worik 3y ago

I advise stopping the use of iOS

sexy_seedbox 3y ago
Throw that iPhone into the river!
coldpie 3y ago
Find me a decent Android phone with a screen around 5" and I will!
- capitainenemo 3y ago
  Decent means a lot of things to different people. For me, the phone that checked all my personal boxes was the samsung xcover6 pro with a swappable battery but still waterproofed, multiple bindable physical buttons, and a ruggedised case. I'm guessing we'd have to know what you're looking for personally to find it :)
  - coldpie 3y ago
    6.6" screen. Too big! >I'm guessing we'd have to know what you're looking for personally to find it :) Like I said in the post, a screen about 5" big. iPhone Mini is the only phone on the market that even gets close (and it's still a little too big IMO), so I'm stuck here on iOS with no access to (real) Firefox :(
    - capitainenemo 3y ago
      Huh. Didn't realise it was so large. Well, it is ruggedised so it still fits well in my pocket without a case. Ok. I didn't realise that was your only requirement. There are a ton of phones out there. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplayInchesMax=5.1&sFormFactors=1,2,3,4,6,10,11&sOSes=2 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplay... here's everything with a screen of 5.1" or smaller. 30 android phones produced in last couple of years with that size. Feel free to adjust the phone finder search to your preferences. For example, here's the 14 phones with a screen size of 4.7" or smaller since you said your iphone was too big. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplayInchesMax=4.7&sFormFactors=1,2,3,4,6,10,11&sOSes=2 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2021&fDisplay...