4 ms·

I know that to be the case. I've checked the numbers from reputable sources numerous times. But my mind still fails to comprehend this. It's a $80k cad luxury

I know that to be the case. I've checked the numbers from reputable sources numerous times. But my mind still fails to comprehend this. It's a $80k cad luxury idiosyncratic vehicle. How's this out-selling civic and corolla, kia and hyundai base models? Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I just don't understand that number if it's talking by units sold (and not revenue or profit). My entire world-view fails to make sense of that factoid.

mvdtnz 3y ago
I've sent it reported by several websites but I've never seen the primary source of that "fact". Lots of websites source Motor1 (some fly by night website I've never heard of) who source but do not link JATO Dynamics, another source I've never heard of, who has supposedly compiled "multiple sources" to find this figure. I share your scepticism.
fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
Base Model Y starts at $43k USD. Then there's probably some electric incentives to bring the even lower depending on where you live, so presumably you can get one in the mid to upper $30's. That's not bad for a new car, especially when the general buyer I think mostly considers it a luxury brand. Also the floor for car prices has gone up. The days of the near $10k new car are over. > Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I'm far from a millionaire and a $40-50k car is not unreasonable, my wife's car is in the low $50s. But I have a Kia Forte that was like $25k. A small Kia for $25k! But it was the cheapest car I could find on shortish notice that had lance centering and whatnot.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  USA and Canadian pricing is clearly different, fascinating! We just got a Kia Rio 5 for $20K CAD (starting price is $17K CAD). Which is less than 25% the price of Tesla Y starting at $68-70k (see my sibling comment a bit up for breakdown details). Absolutely different cars in size, features, capabilities, etc, yes! But for me, in Canada, Tesla Y is very much in the luxury category :-/
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  a 2024 base model civic in the burbs 2 hours out of NYC goes for $23,950, and will almost certainly have better QA than the tesla. the media salary in the US is like 55k is a lot, esp. given the prices of everything going up, and given the alternatives.
  - fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
    Yeah I wouldn't buy one, was just trying to make the point that it wasn't so expensive that it didn't have potential to sell well just based on price, given the parent millionaire remark.
minwcnt5 3y ago
Model Y is definitely not a luxury vehicle in the US. I'm not sure about in Canada, but in the US the Model Y AWD only costs about $15k more than a mid-tier AWD Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV 4 trim (I just recently priced out options for our next vehicle). You'll make up that difference over the first 5-10 years in gas and maintenance savings, and then tax incentives shave off another $7.5k or more depending on the state at low/mid income levels. In other words, it's at most marginally more expensive than a Civic or Corolla, and on par with compact SUVs. The same is more or less true in China. See tons of Teslas there.
- homefree 3y ago
  Yeah, this is basically the reason. The price is comparable, the costs of ownership are way lower, and the product is at least twice as good. There's basically no downside which is why they're selling so well.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Tesla Model Y, according to website, starts at 70k CAD. Toyota RAV4, according to website, starts at 36K CAD. So that's plus or minus twice the price :-/ Other way of looking at it - even if it were "Only $15k USD difference" in USA, that is an entire car worth of difference (not only in pre-COVID times, when you could buy a new car for $10k! We just bought a $17k Kia Rio 5. Tesla Y is four time the price, and ~2.5 times the price of Corolla or Civic, which again I wouldn't think of as "marginally more expensive". (Edit: And this does not include the money one would presumably need to spend to install chargers etc at home). Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's a somewhat Hacker-News specific perspective that Tesla isn't luxury, or that $15k USD difference isn't much. Acura RDX starts at $57K CAD, which is 12K CAD less than the Tesla Y, and I'd certainly consider that a luxury car. Other people might not! But that underscores my point that for high earners, "luxury" and "rich" creeps up. (same for me too! I used to think $100k a year was "rich" until I got there and then I conveniently moved up my own personal definition. I don't consider our Honda Odyssey a luxury internally - I consider it a "necessity" or a "practical choice" until I have a "whoa" moment and remember that my parents took five people around in a little Citroen AX and Zastava 101, and that vast majority of people cannot afford a $55k CAD family car - and even we got it used from a 2 year lease because $55k CAD for a car is just a lot lot lot of money)
f001 3y ago
A lot of people are no longer buying new cars. Of my groups of friends, only the very wealthy and well paid ones have done so. Half of them very reluctantly because the used car market getting so crazy. In fact a lot of the craziness of the used car market is down to increasingly people can’t afford a new car.
rented_mule 3y ago
It's cherry-picked statistics. It's just talking about a single model. Tesla has far fewer models than the larger automakers, so total sales are more concentrated in any one model. Tesla has sold about 5 million vehicles in its entire history. The last time Toyota sold less that 5 million vehicles in a single year was 20 years ago (they do close to a million vehicles a month now [1]). VW Group is not far behind Toyota. ---- 1 - https://www.investopedia.com/toyota-global-output-hits-record-high-in-august-amid-robust-local-production-7975915 https://www.investopedia.com/toyota-global-output-hits-recor...

mvdtnz 3y ago

I've sent it reported by several websites but I've never seen the primary source of that "fact". Lots of websites source Motor1 (some fly by night website I've never heard of) who source but do not link JATO Dynamics, another source I've never heard of, who has supposedly compiled "multiple sources" to find this figure. I share your scepticism.

fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago

Base Model Y starts at $43k USD. Then there's probably some electric incentives to bring the even lower depending on where you live, so presumably you can get one in the mid to upper $30's. That's not bad for a new car, especially when the general buyer I think mostly considers it a luxury brand. Also the floor for car prices has gone up. The days of the near $10k new car are over. > Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I'm far from a millionaire and a $40-50k car is not unreasonable, my wife's car is in the low $50s. But I have a Kia Forte that was like $25k. A small Kia for $25k! But it was the cheapest car I could find on shortish notice that had lance centering and whatnot.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
USA and Canadian pricing is clearly different, fascinating! We just got a Kia Rio 5 for $20K CAD (starting price is $17K CAD). Which is less than 25% the price of Tesla Y starting at $68-70k (see my sibling comment a bit up for breakdown details). Absolutely different cars in size, features, capabilities, etc, yes! But for me, in Canada, Tesla Y is very much in the luxury category :-/
red-iron-pine 3y ago
a 2024 base model civic in the burbs 2 hours out of NYC goes for $23,950, and will almost certainly have better QA than the tesla. the media salary in the US is like 55k is a lot, esp. given the prices of everything going up, and given the alternatives.
- fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
  Yeah I wouldn't buy one, was just trying to make the point that it wasn't so expensive that it didn't have potential to sell well just based on price, given the parent millionaire remark.

minwcnt5 3y ago

Model Y is definitely not a luxury vehicle in the US. I'm not sure about in Canada, but in the US the Model Y AWD only costs about $15k more than a mid-tier AWD Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV 4 trim (I just recently priced out options for our next vehicle). You'll make up that difference over the first 5-10 years in gas and maintenance savings, and then tax incentives shave off another $7.5k or more depending on the state at low/mid income levels. In other words, it's at most marginally more expensive than a Civic or Corolla, and on par with compact SUVs. The same is more or less true in China. See tons of Teslas there.

homefree 3y ago
Yeah, this is basically the reason. The price is comparable, the costs of ownership are way lower, and the product is at least twice as good. There's basically no downside which is why they're selling so well.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
Tesla Model Y, according to website, starts at 70k CAD. Toyota RAV4, according to website, starts at 36K CAD. So that's plus or minus twice the price :-/ Other way of looking at it - even if it were "Only $15k USD difference" in USA, that is an entire car worth of difference (not only in pre-COVID times, when you could buy a new car for $10k! We just bought a $17k Kia Rio 5. Tesla Y is four time the price, and ~2.5 times the price of Corolla or Civic, which again I wouldn't think of as "marginally more expensive". (Edit: And this does not include the money one would presumably need to spend to install chargers etc at home). Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's a somewhat Hacker-News specific perspective that Tesla isn't luxury, or that $15k USD difference isn't much. Acura RDX starts at $57K CAD, which is 12K CAD less than the Tesla Y, and I'd certainly consider that a luxury car. Other people might not! But that underscores my point that for high earners, "luxury" and "rich" creeps up. (same for me too! I used to think $100k a year was "rich" until I got there and then I conveniently moved up my own personal definition. I don't consider our Honda Odyssey a luxury internally - I consider it a "necessity" or a "practical choice" until I have a "whoa" moment and remember that my parents took five people around in a little Citroen AX and Zastava 101, and that vast majority of people cannot afford a $55k CAD family car - and even we got it used from a 2 year lease because $55k CAD for a car is just a lot lot lot of money)

f001 3y ago

A lot of people are no longer buying new cars. Of my groups of friends, only the very wealthy and well paid ones have done so. Half of them very reluctantly because the used car market getting so crazy. In fact a lot of the craziness of the used car market is down to increasingly people can’t afford a new car.

rented_mule 3y ago

It's cherry-picked statistics. It's just talking about a single model. Tesla has far fewer models than the larger automakers, so total sales are more concentrated in any one model. Tesla has sold about 5 million vehicles in its entire history. The last time Toyota sold less that 5 million vehicles in a single year was 20 years ago (they do close to a million vehicles a month now [1]). VW Group is not far behind Toyota. ---- 1 - https://www.investopedia.com/toyota-global-output-hits-record-high-in-august-amid-robust-local-production-7975915 https://www.investopedia.com/toyota-global-output-hits-recor...