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Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics? Taking something without permission that doesn't belong to you is stealing. It may be justified stealing but it's

Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics? Taking something without permission that doesn't belong to you is stealing. It may be justified stealing but it's still stealing.

caslon 3y ago
It's not taking, though. It's copying. Monks used to write books out by hand. If you were to go to a monastery, and copy a book line by line, you will have taken nothing at all. Nothing will be lost. It's not taking, it's not stealing. It's just making a copy. You are the one doing gymnastics.
- dkonofalski 3y ago
  You're taking something that doesn't belong to you and copying it. It's stealing. In order to even make the "unauthorized copy" you mention, you have to take the thing first. That's the stealing.
  - caslon 3y ago
    There is no loss of data on either side. It's not stealing. Your argument is like saying that a picture of the Eiffel Tower is stealing. Nothing is lost from copying.
    - dkonofalski 3y ago
      Loss of data is irrelevant. If you don't have permission to take something or copy it, then you're stealing. Again, I think the benefits of what happened in this case are obvious so I'm not arguing the morality of this. I just think it's absolutely silly that people are bending over backwards to pretend that this isn't stealing and that the reason we have something that would have been otherwise lost is because someone had to balls to steal it. It's stealing. You're taking something from the owner without permission. Just stop with the mental gymnastics.
  - superb_dev 3y ago
    What if you already have access to it and don't need to "take" it from anywhere?
    - dkonofalski 3y ago
      Having access to it is not the same as having permission to take it, make copies of it, or remove it or its copies from the owner.
  - LocalH 3y ago
    It is not legally stealing whatsoever. Zero laws that cover "stealing" are applicable to copyright infringement.
    - dkonofalski 3y ago
      No one gives a crap about your pedantry. I never said anything about "legally stealing". They took something that didn't belong to them and that they didn't have permission to give to someone else or copy. That's theft. It's stealing.

Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics? Taking something without permission that doesn't belong to you is stealing. It may be justified stealing but it's still stealing.

caslon 3y ago

It's not taking, though. It's copying. Monks used to write books out by hand. If you were to go to a monastery, and copy a book line by line, you will have taken nothing at all. Nothing will be lost. It's not taking, it's not stealing. It's just making a copy. You are the one doing gymnastics.

dkonofalski 3y ago
You're taking something that doesn't belong to you and copying it. It's stealing. In order to even make the "unauthorized copy" you mention, you have to take the thing first. That's the stealing.
- caslon 3y ago
  There is no loss of data on either side. It's not stealing. Your argument is like saying that a picture of the Eiffel Tower is stealing. Nothing is lost from copying.
  - dkonofalski 3y ago
    Loss of data is irrelevant. If you don't have permission to take something or copy it, then you're stealing. Again, I think the benefits of what happened in this case are obvious so I'm not arguing the morality of this. I just think it's absolutely silly that people are bending over backwards to pretend that this isn't stealing and that the reason we have something that would have been otherwise lost is because someone had to balls to steal it. It's stealing. You're taking something from the owner without permission. Just stop with the mental gymnastics.
- superb_dev 3y ago
  What if you already have access to it and don't need to "take" it from anywhere?
  - dkonofalski 3y ago
    Having access to it is not the same as having permission to take it, make copies of it, or remove it or its copies from the owner.
- LocalH 3y ago
  It is not legally stealing whatsoever. Zero laws that cover "stealing" are applicable to copyright infringement.
  - dkonofalski 3y ago
    No one gives a crap about your pedantry. I never said anything about "legally stealing". They took something that didn't belong to them and that they didn't have permission to give to someone else or copy. That's theft. It's stealing.