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HN is just generally awful on this topic and not worth commenting in imo. Tesla is very well positioned even if they did zero on FSD (which they won't). The Mo

HN is just generally awful on this topic and not worth commenting in imo. Tesla is very well positioned even if they did zero on FSD (which they won't). The Model Y was the best selling car on earth across all categories (including ICE and EVs!) - not sure what more you could want for car company success.

misiti3780 3y ago
HN has a lot of people that hate Elon Musk because they disagree with his politics. It's clear to anyone that is on here every day since his twitter became popular. If you look back, 10 years ago HN loved him (see convo about first time 2 falcon 9s landed), but now that he is the richest man in the world the tides have turned.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  You say that like there's something wrong with disagreeing with anti semitism. Of COURSE people disagree with his politics. You'd have to be fucked in the head not to. HN isn't Stormfront, you know. His behavior changed and new facts arrived since he used to be popular, so reasonable people changed their minds about him, and unreasonable racists are now his new biggest fans. The reason people hate him is not that he's the richest man in the world, it's that he's a bigot. I'm stunned that I need to explain that to you. Is it actually news to you? If so, welcome out from under your rock. Or are you just pretending not to know, in order to troll?
  - misiti3780 3y ago
    How is he a bigot? What has he specifically done that is racist or anti-semetic? I don't care that he called someone a pedophile. He apologized for that: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-rescue-diver-a-pedo#:~:text=BANGKOK%20%E2%80%94%20Tesla%20and%20SpaceX%20CEO,Unsworth%20to%20Musk's%20latest%20tweets https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/elon-musk-apologizes-for-....
    - DonHopkins 3y ago
      There are uncountably many horrible things I don't need to insincerely issue a non-apology apology for at the insistence of my legal department, because I never did them in the first place. You've got a lot of catching up to do from your 10 year absence from reality. I'm not going to lead you to water because you'll refuse to drink. Go google it for yourself, and stop trolling.
      - misiti3780 3y ago
        Exactly the response I was expecting. Throw out some huge accusations, and dont back them up with a single example. Solid work Don! Have a nice day.
        DonHopkins 3y ago
        Exactly the response I was expecting from you too, since I just said you were pretending not to know in order to troll, and that confirms it. I don't owe you any examples, because you know very well but are pretending not to know what I'm referring to, you're not a serious person, you're intellectually dishonest, and you're trolling, so your bad faith arguments don't matter, and you don't deserve a response, troll. “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
      - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
        You didn’t answer any of his questions, which are not as ludicrous as your scathing reply implies.
- mehlmao 3y ago
  Ten years ago was before he started calling rescue divers pedophiles.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    and ruining twitter by recreating voat aka parlor 2.0 and don't forget all of the anti-union causes he donates to
- homefree 3y ago
  Yeah the irony is he used to get a lot of hate from the right (because of environmentalism and EVs being left-coded) while the left loved him, but it's flip-flopped. I think partly because the media is directly threatened by twitter - there's a conflict of interest, but also because the progressive left has gotten worse (though I think the 'hate the rich' bit is part of it). The same types of people (inaccurately) labeling Musk an antisemite are often simultaneously pushing/defending DEI offices and ideology at universities that cause actual direct threats against Jewish students.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
I know that to be the case. I've checked the numbers from reputable sources numerous times. But my mind still fails to comprehend this. It's a $80k cad luxury idiosyncratic vehicle. How's this out-selling civic and corolla, kia and hyundai base models? Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I just don't understand that number if it's talking by units sold (and not revenue or profit). My entire world-view fails to make sense of that factoid.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  I've sent it reported by several websites but I've never seen the primary source of that "fact". Lots of websites source Motor1 (some fly by night website I've never heard of) who source but do not link JATO Dynamics, another source I've never heard of, who has supposedly compiled "multiple sources" to find this figure. I share your scepticism.
- fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
  Base Model Y starts at $43k USD. Then there's probably some electric incentives to bring the even lower depending on where you live, so presumably you can get one in the mid to upper $30's. That's not bad for a new car, especially when the general buyer I think mostly considers it a luxury brand. Also the floor for car prices has gone up. The days of the near $10k new car are over. > Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I'm far from a millionaire and a $40-50k car is not unreasonable, my wife's car is in the low $50s. But I have a Kia Forte that was like $25k. A small Kia for $25k! But it was the cheapest car I could find on shortish notice that had lance centering and whatnot.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    USA and Canadian pricing is clearly different, fascinating! We just got a Kia Rio 5 for $20K CAD (starting price is $17K CAD). Which is less than 25% the price of Tesla Y starting at $68-70k (see my sibling comment a bit up for breakdown details). Absolutely different cars in size, features, capabilities, etc, yes! But for me, in Canada, Tesla Y is very much in the luxury category :-/
  - 3y ago

misiti3780 3y ago

HN has a lot of people that hate Elon Musk because they disagree with his politics. It's clear to anyone that is on here every day since his twitter became popular. If you look back, 10 years ago HN loved him (see convo about first time 2 falcon 9s landed), but now that he is the richest man in the world the tides have turned.

DonHopkins 3y ago
You say that like there's something wrong with disagreeing with anti semitism. Of COURSE people disagree with his politics. You'd have to be fucked in the head not to. HN isn't Stormfront, you know. His behavior changed and new facts arrived since he used to be popular, so reasonable people changed their minds about him, and unreasonable racists are now his new biggest fans. The reason people hate him is not that he's the richest man in the world, it's that he's a bigot. I'm stunned that I need to explain that to you. Is it actually news to you? If so, welcome out from under your rock. Or are you just pretending not to know, in order to troll?
- misiti3780 3y ago
  How is he a bigot? What has he specifically done that is racist or anti-semetic? I don't care that he called someone a pedophile. He apologized for that: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-rescue-diver-a-pedo#:~:text=BANGKOK%20%E2%80%94%20Tesla%20and%20SpaceX%20CEO,Unsworth%20to%20Musk's%20latest%20tweets https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/elon-musk-apologizes-for-....
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    There are uncountably many horrible things I don't need to insincerely issue a non-apology apology for at the insistence of my legal department, because I never did them in the first place. You've got a lot of catching up to do from your 10 year absence from reality. I'm not going to lead you to water because you'll refuse to drink. Go google it for yourself, and stop trolling.
    - misiti3780 3y ago
      Exactly the response I was expecting. Throw out some huge accusations, and dont back them up with a single example. Solid work Don! Have a nice day.
      - DonHopkins 3y ago
        Exactly the response I was expecting from you too, since I just said you were pretending not to know in order to troll, and that confirms it. I don't owe you any examples, because you know very well but are pretending not to know what I'm referring to, you're not a serious person, you're intellectually dishonest, and you're trolling, so your bad faith arguments don't matter, and you don't deserve a response, troll. “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
    - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
      You didn’t answer any of his questions, which are not as ludicrous as your scathing reply implies.
mehlmao 3y ago
Ten years ago was before he started calling rescue divers pedophiles.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  and ruining twitter by recreating voat aka parlor 2.0 and don't forget all of the anti-union causes he donates to
homefree 3y ago
Yeah the irony is he used to get a lot of hate from the right (because of environmentalism and EVs being left-coded) while the left loved him, but it's flip-flopped. I think partly because the media is directly threatened by twitter - there's a conflict of interest, but also because the progressive left has gotten worse (though I think the 'hate the rich' bit is part of it). The same types of people (inaccurately) labeling Musk an antisemite are often simultaneously pushing/defending DEI offices and ideology at universities that cause actual direct threats against Jewish students.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

I know that to be the case. I've checked the numbers from reputable sources numerous times. But my mind still fails to comprehend this. It's a $80k cad luxury idiosyncratic vehicle. How's this out-selling civic and corolla, kia and hyundai base models? Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I just don't understand that number if it's talking by units sold (and not revenue or profit). My entire world-view fails to make sense of that factoid.

mvdtnz 3y ago
I've sent it reported by several websites but I've never seen the primary source of that "fact". Lots of websites source Motor1 (some fly by night website I've never heard of) who source but do not link JATO Dynamics, another source I've never heard of, who has supposedly compiled "multiple sources" to find this figure. I share your scepticism.
fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
Base Model Y starts at $43k USD. Then there's probably some electric incentives to bring the even lower depending on where you live, so presumably you can get one in the mid to upper $30's. That's not bad for a new car, especially when the general buyer I think mostly considers it a luxury brand. Also the floor for car prices has gone up. The days of the near $10k new car are over. > Have millionaires outnumbered regular folks by that much worldwide? I'm far from a millionaire and a $40-50k car is not unreasonable, my wife's car is in the low $50s. But I have a Kia Forte that was like $25k. A small Kia for $25k! But it was the cheapest car I could find on shortish notice that had lance centering and whatnot.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  USA and Canadian pricing is clearly different, fascinating! We just got a Kia Rio 5 for $20K CAD (starting price is $17K CAD). Which is less than 25% the price of Tesla Y starting at $68-70k (see my sibling comment a bit up for breakdown details). Absolutely different cars in size, features, capabilities, etc, yes! But for me, in Canada, Tesla Y is very much in the luxury category :-/
- 3y ago