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You’re not gonna retrofit Atlanta and Dallas to be commuter friendly anytime soon. Self driving cars are gonna be a thing given what Waymos been able to achieve

You’re not gonna retrofit Atlanta and Dallas to be commuter friendly anytime soon. Self driving cars are gonna be a thing given what Waymos been able to achieve in SF and Phoenix already.

mym1990 3y ago
I won't go as far as to say Atlanta is commuter friendly, but the past decade has seen lots of improvements in greenway construction, the expansion of the beltline, connecting different parts of the city. I hope it keeps going that directions because that is where I am looking to end up eventually. I used to cycle down Peachtree Street from Buckhead to Piedmont Park...it was a harrowing experience.
ericmay 3y ago
I'm not sure we need to retrofit Atlanta or Dallas, or what you might envision here. You could for example maintain existing infrastructure without spending a lot of taxpayer money on new highways and instead allocate funding to improving density, adjusting zoning, eliminating surface parking lots, and literally just paving sidewalks and bike lanes. Busses can run on existing highways and throughout cities. City streets can already accommodate trams and bike lanes. I agree that self-driving cars are "going to be a thing" but their proliferation I doubt. They're not really a category change from Uber, it's just "more efficient" as an additive solution, but we need subtractive solutions. You can think of the car and self-driving cars in particular in the same way you can think of personal digital cameras, alarm clocks, and smiliar devices before the advent of the iPhone. The iPhone (and other smart phones) was a subtractive product and eliminated the need for those devices. Similarly a sidewalk and building well (among other things) eliminate much of the need for a personal car and so Ford, GM, Toyota, Tesla, etc. can't effectively compete because they don't build sidewalks or have anything to do with this category of transit. If I can just walk over to the grocery store like I could in London or Osaka then no amount of self-driving will matter.
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  Self driving cars also won’t really fix traffic, because people will send the car home (doubling the number of trips)
  - erik_seaberg 3y ago
    I'm hoping self driving traffic can operate at shorter following distances and doesn't make dumb mistakes that block lanes.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Self driving cars also imply you can have self driving buses. Imagine a couple small electric vans running from your cul-de-sac to a local transit center (with shopping). Since labor is the highest cost of a bus no sane transit system could do this, but a cheap self driving van means nobody on your street needs to own a car, and the local transit center lets you transfer to larger transit vehicles to other places. It might be slower than directly taking your car places, but it is a lot cheaper and better for the environment.
    - JAlexoid 3y ago
      I think that the future of self driving is shuttles. Small vehicles that use the road to take you on the short journeys, where mass transit is not an option. The biggest issue with busses, for me is the timetable. Imagine having a truly 24/7 on time transit network? You'd only need a vehicle to haul something, which is not a daily operation.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Which is what I was getting at. Get people to someplace where mass transit can run 24/7 quickly, then let mass transit take over.
  - Tiktaalik 3y ago
    Even if no one ever does that, sends an empty car anywhere, there will be an increase in "drivers" on the road as more people that would not be allowed to drive because they have no license (ie. the elderly and children) are now able to drive by themselves in a single car, whereas previously they would have transported themselves with other people or on public transit. Autonomous cars will result in an explosion of cars on the road and a severe increase in traffic. It'll be a disaster.
bluGill 3y ago
Soon no, but you have to start sometime. The sooner you start building great transit, the sooner people can start switching their life and city to use that. But if you sit around in defeatism people cannot switch and things get worse. Both cities have a lot of low hanging fruit to improve transit, it just takes some vision and investment in building/running it. Once the transit is in place the city responds, and in a few years you have more places that are worth an investment to improve transit, and in turn the city responds. Of course you need to avoid all the issues of NYC where they can't do anything, but both Atlanta and Dallas are not as corrupt (which isn't saying much) around transit.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
That may be true but, by the sky high prices of houses in walkable neighborhoods it’s pretty clear that there’s unmet demand for a less car centric life. Smart cities are starting to figure this out, it’s just going to take time. Something like 40% of trips in Amsterdam are still made by car. It’s a useful tool, just not the ultimate solution to every transportation issue.
naremu 3y ago
Considering many cities were actually retrofitted to become car/sprawl centric, I'm going to say that's a political will/lobbying problem rather than a real one. Although it may have become a problem with all this sunken cost.
aiisjustanif 3y ago
Atlanta and Dallas are two poor examples compared to say Houston and LA. Atlanta and Dallas both have multiple forms of public transportation and extensive bike trails, you actually could extend the existing capabilities in both cities easier than others.

You’re not gonna retrofit Atlanta and Dallas to be commuter friendly anytime soon. Self driving cars are gonna be a thing given what Waymos been able to achieve in SF and Phoenix already.

mym1990 3y ago

I won't go as far as to say Atlanta is commuter friendly, but the past decade has seen lots of improvements in greenway construction, the expansion of the beltline, connecting different parts of the city. I hope it keeps going that directions because that is where I am looking to end up eventually. I used to cycle down Peachtree Street from Buckhead to Piedmont Park...it was a harrowing experience.

ericmay 3y ago

I'm not sure we need to retrofit Atlanta or Dallas, or what you might envision here. You could for example maintain existing infrastructure without spending a lot of taxpayer money on new highways and instead allocate funding to improving density, adjusting zoning, eliminating surface parking lots, and literally just paving sidewalks and bike lanes. Busses can run on existing highways and throughout cities. City streets can already accommodate trams and bike lanes. I agree that self-driving cars are "going to be a thing" but their proliferation I doubt. They're not really a category change from Uber, it's just "more efficient" as an additive solution, but we need subtractive solutions. You can think of the car and self-driving cars in particular in the same way you can think of personal digital cameras, alarm clocks, and smiliar devices before the advent of the iPhone. The iPhone (and other smart phones) was a subtractive product and eliminated the need for those devices. Similarly a sidewalk and building well (among other things) eliminate much of the need for a personal car and so Ford, GM, Toyota, Tesla, etc. can't effectively compete because they don't build sidewalks or have anything to do with this category of transit. If I can just walk over to the grocery store like I could in London or Osaka then no amount of self-driving will matter.

NegativeLatency 3y ago
Self driving cars also won’t really fix traffic, because people will send the car home (doubling the number of trips)
- erik_seaberg 3y ago
  I'm hoping self driving traffic can operate at shorter following distances and doesn't make dumb mistakes that block lanes.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Self driving cars also imply you can have self driving buses. Imagine a couple small electric vans running from your cul-de-sac to a local transit center (with shopping). Since labor is the highest cost of a bus no sane transit system could do this, but a cheap self driving van means nobody on your street needs to own a car, and the local transit center lets you transfer to larger transit vehicles to other places. It might be slower than directly taking your car places, but it is a lot cheaper and better for the environment.
  - JAlexoid 3y ago
    I think that the future of self driving is shuttles. Small vehicles that use the road to take you on the short journeys, where mass transit is not an option. The biggest issue with busses, for me is the timetable. Imagine having a truly 24/7 on time transit network? You'd only need a vehicle to haul something, which is not a daily operation.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Which is what I was getting at. Get people to someplace where mass transit can run 24/7 quickly, then let mass transit take over.
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  Even if no one ever does that, sends an empty car anywhere, there will be an increase in "drivers" on the road as more people that would not be allowed to drive because they have no license (ie. the elderly and children) are now able to drive by themselves in a single car, whereas previously they would have transported themselves with other people or on public transit. Autonomous cars will result in an explosion of cars on the road and a severe increase in traffic. It'll be a disaster.

bluGill 3y ago

Soon no, but you have to start sometime. The sooner you start building great transit, the sooner people can start switching their life and city to use that. But if you sit around in defeatism people cannot switch and things get worse. Both cities have a lot of low hanging fruit to improve transit, it just takes some vision and investment in building/running it. Once the transit is in place the city responds, and in a few years you have more places that are worth an investment to improve transit, and in turn the city responds. Of course you need to avoid all the issues of NYC where they can't do anything, but both Atlanta and Dallas are not as corrupt (which isn't saying much) around transit.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

That may be true but, by the sky high prices of houses in walkable neighborhoods it’s pretty clear that there’s unmet demand for a less car centric life. Smart cities are starting to figure this out, it’s just going to take time. Something like 40% of trips in Amsterdam are still made by car. It’s a useful tool, just not the ultimate solution to every transportation issue.

naremu 3y ago

Considering many cities were actually retrofitted to become car/sprawl centric, I'm going to say that's a political will/lobbying problem rather than a real one. Although it may have become a problem with all this sunken cost.

aiisjustanif 3y ago

Atlanta and Dallas are two poor examples compared to say Houston and LA. Atlanta and Dallas both have multiple forms of public transportation and extensive bike trails, you actually could extend the existing capabilities in both cities easier than others.