4 ms·

> give the police what they want Like the ability to actually do something when a looter horde raids a department store?

meepmorp 3y ago
In the context of the conversation, the interpretation of "give police what they want," is clearly something like, "defer to the departments about how they handle bodycam footage, policies about recording, and discipline for officers that don't conform to related laws and policies." The fact that you chose an unrelated topic couched in deliberately inflammatory language only shows bad faith on your part.
- waihtis 3y ago
  true and I apologize. But I also think it can be tied to the larger picture where the police is both forced into better accountability (good) and stripped down of the ability to do their job (bad), for which "organizational resistance" is a completely valid countermeasure.
  - greedo 3y ago
    Can you list some of the ways police have been stripped of their ability to do their job?
    - waihtis 3y ago
      Some DA's sudden refusal to prosecute a variety of property and drug crimes is a good example. No use catching criminals if they're just let loose.
    - Der_Einzige 3y ago
      See all the law changes in Oregon since 2018. Cops for example can’t pull you over for ghetto cars anymore. Cops can’t use the smell of weed as probable cause, and far far more.
      - greedo 3y ago
        Nice terminology about the cars.../s And pot is legal in Oregon, so why would the smell be probable cause? Besides, cops invent PC on a routine basis.
        Der_Einzige 3y ago
        The smell of pot in one’s care gives probable cause in many states where it’s legal. Driving while stoned is still illegal in Oregon, but difficult to enforce since cops can’t easily search your vehicle anymore. You’re being dense on purpose. You know I’m right but don’t want to admit it. You go for cheap shots on my language because you have no other legit arguments. Pathetic.
        greedo 3y ago
        It's pathetic to call them ghetto cars, rez wagons or whatever racist term you want to use.
zo1 3y ago
If they were given the ability to properly and violently stop these shenanigans (violent store and street mobs/takeovers), you bet that the next week there'd be more BLM looting sprees. This is nothing but bullies pushing their way and the rest of civil society being too scared to push back because they don't want to escalate to the level of violence that the bullies are very comfortable with. Whether we're discussing unions, false accusations, skilled orators that capture and direct hatred, or violent rioters that hide under the guise of "protest".
- waihtis 3y ago
  100% spot on
danaris 3y ago
Let's put this in perspective. Something like that might happen once or twice every few decades. In the country. Meanwhile, the abuses the police are perpetrating, in many cities, are happening on a monthly basis (or more often). Even if we stipulate that we need someone capable of dealing with the looter horde, we don't need that capability to be in the same hands as the people who are handing out traffic tickets every day.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Your estimate of the frequency of organized looting and mine differ by several orders of magnitude.
- waihtis 3y ago
  your statement is easily proven to be total BS by a single press release: https://corporate.target.com/press/statement/2023/09/target-closes-select-stores-to-prioritize-team-member-and-guest-safety https://corporate.target.com/press/statement/2023/09/target-...
  - jquery 3y ago
    Umm, I'm familiar with one of those locations that closed. It had very little parking, was extremely understaffed (1 active cashier working slowly...), and didn't have much foot traffic. There weren't any bags to put my stuff in when I checked out. It was such a poor experience I never went back there, despite it being the Target nearest to me. I was zero percent surprised when I heard it closed for good. Businesses and business franchises fail all the time in cities, Target is no exception. In other words the press release is just dodging responsibility.
    - waihtis 3y ago
      I'm also familiar with one of the locations that closed. While I was shopping, it was raided by 80 people who also acted violently towards the patrons. It was such a poor experience I never went back there, despite it being the Target nearest to me. I was zero percent surprised when I heard it closed for good.

meepmorp 3y ago

In the context of the conversation, the interpretation of "give police what they want," is clearly something like, "defer to the departments about how they handle bodycam footage, policies about recording, and discipline for officers that don't conform to related laws and policies." The fact that you chose an unrelated topic couched in deliberately inflammatory language only shows bad faith on your part.

waihtis 3y ago
true and I apologize. But I also think it can be tied to the larger picture where the police is both forced into better accountability (good) and stripped down of the ability to do their job (bad), for which "organizational resistance" is a completely valid countermeasure.
- greedo 3y ago
  Can you list some of the ways police have been stripped of their ability to do their job?
  - waihtis 3y ago
    Some DA's sudden refusal to prosecute a variety of property and drug crimes is a good example. No use catching criminals if they're just let loose.
  - Der_Einzige 3y ago
    See all the law changes in Oregon since 2018. Cops for example can’t pull you over for ghetto cars anymore. Cops can’t use the smell of weed as probable cause, and far far more.
    - greedo 3y ago
      Nice terminology about the cars.../s And pot is legal in Oregon, so why would the smell be probable cause? Besides, cops invent PC on a routine basis.
      - Der_Einzige 3y ago
        The smell of pot in one’s care gives probable cause in many states where it’s legal. Driving while stoned is still illegal in Oregon, but difficult to enforce since cops can’t easily search your vehicle anymore. You’re being dense on purpose. You know I’m right but don’t want to admit it. You go for cheap shots on my language because you have no other legit arguments. Pathetic.
        greedo 3y ago
        It's pathetic to call them ghetto cars, rez wagons or whatever racist term you want to use.

zo1 3y ago

If they were given the ability to properly and violently stop these shenanigans (violent store and street mobs/takeovers), you bet that the next week there'd be more BLM looting sprees. This is nothing but bullies pushing their way and the rest of civil society being too scared to push back because they don't want to escalate to the level of violence that the bullies are very comfortable with. Whether we're discussing unions, false accusations, skilled orators that capture and direct hatred, or violent rioters that hide under the guise of "protest".

waihtis 3y ago
100% spot on

danaris 3y ago

Let's put this in perspective. Something like that might happen once or twice every few decades. In the country. Meanwhile, the abuses the police are perpetrating, in many cities, are happening on a monthly basis (or more often). Even if we stipulate that we need someone capable of dealing with the looter horde, we don't need that capability to be in the same hands as the people who are handing out traffic tickets every day.

sokoloff 3y ago
Your estimate of the frequency of organized looting and mine differ by several orders of magnitude.
waihtis 3y ago
your statement is easily proven to be total BS by a single press release: https://corporate.target.com/press/statement/2023/09/target-closes-select-stores-to-prioritize-team-member-and-guest-safety https://corporate.target.com/press/statement/2023/09/target-...
- jquery 3y ago
  Umm, I'm familiar with one of those locations that closed. It had very little parking, was extremely understaffed (1 active cashier working slowly...), and didn't have much foot traffic. There weren't any bags to put my stuff in when I checked out. It was such a poor experience I never went back there, despite it being the Target nearest to me. I was zero percent surprised when I heard it closed for good. Businesses and business franchises fail all the time in cities, Target is no exception. In other words the press release is just dodging responsibility.
  - waihtis 3y ago
    I'm also familiar with one of the locations that closed. While I was shopping, it was raided by 80 people who also acted violently towards the patrons. It was such a poor experience I never went back there, despite it being the Target nearest to me. I was zero percent surprised when I heard it closed for good.