8 ms·

> So this may not be a big deal You're right, but Red Hat led Debian/Ubuntu over the systemd cliff. (Because, you know, a gigantic ball of binary code is bett

> So this may not be a big deal You're right, but Red Hat led Debian/Ubuntu over the systemd cliff. (Because, you know, a gigantic ball of binary code is better than runit/s6/sysv/etc. /s)

exploderate 3y ago
Wow, I need to get some of that "binary code". Sounds dangerous, probably has "pointers" and other sharp things? I'm happy the gigantic ball of ill-maintained shell scripts from the last century is gone from my systems.
- ori_b 3y ago
  Some people seem to think that systemd is the only alternative to the sysv init mess. This is a false dichotomy. Sv, smf, s6, openrc, runit, dinit, epoch, BSD, ...
  - jimmaswell 3y ago
    I never had any horse in systemd/init.d and wasn't too familiar with the issue until I watched this presentation. systemd seems reasonable enough after considering it. https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo
- mmcgaha 3y ago
  https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=sysvinit https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=sysvinit https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=systemd https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=systemd
  - rollcat 3y ago
    Who are the remaining users of sysvinit? Alpine & Gentoo are on OpenRC, Void is on runit, the BSDs have always had their own init, everything else I can think of is either on systemd, or hardly significant. I mean, sysvinit was horrible, and systemd is horrible in very different ways, just wondering who and why is holding on.
  - gunapologist99 3y ago
    Point and score.
bigstrat2003 3y ago
Systemd is fine. I've used it for years, never once had an issue. And the "Unix philosophy" is completely overrated, it provides no value. So I don't care in the least if it's a gigantic ball of code. If this is your idea of an argument as to why this move is bad, then you have no leg to stand on.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
Yeah, these giant balls of biary code like GNU & Systemd are terrible. There should be a new project & legal foundation for every tool, organizations need to follow the UNIX philosophy.
ktm5j 3y ago
The systemd transition was rocky early on but we're way past that and it works great. I say this having dealt with systemd in production since the early days and IMO there's no reason for continuing to hate on it.

> So this may not be a big deal You're right, but Red Hat led Debian/Ubuntu over the systemd cliff. (Because, you know, a gigantic ball of binary code is better than runit/s6/sysv/etc. /s)

exploderate 3y ago

Wow, I need to get some of that "binary code". Sounds dangerous, probably has "pointers" and other sharp things? I'm happy the gigantic ball of ill-maintained shell scripts from the last century is gone from my systems.

ori_b 3y ago
Some people seem to think that systemd is the only alternative to the sysv init mess. This is a false dichotomy. Sv, smf, s6, openrc, runit, dinit, epoch, BSD, ...
- jimmaswell 3y ago
  I never had any horse in systemd/init.d and wasn't too familiar with the issue until I watched this presentation. systemd seems reasonable enough after considering it. https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo
mmcgaha 3y ago
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=sysvinit https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=sysvinit https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=systemd https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=systemd
- rollcat 3y ago
  Who are the remaining users of sysvinit? Alpine & Gentoo are on OpenRC, Void is on runit, the BSDs have always had their own init, everything else I can think of is either on systemd, or hardly significant. I mean, sysvinit was horrible, and systemd is horrible in very different ways, just wondering who and why is holding on.
- gunapologist99 3y ago
  Point and score.

bigstrat2003 3y ago

Systemd is fine. I've used it for years, never once had an issue. And the "Unix philosophy" is completely overrated, it provides no value. So I don't care in the least if it's a gigantic ball of code. If this is your idea of an argument as to why this move is bad, then you have no leg to stand on.

SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago

Yeah, these giant balls of biary code like GNU & Systemd are terrible. There should be a new project & legal foundation for every tool, organizations need to follow the UNIX philosophy.

ktm5j 3y ago

The systemd transition was rocky early on but we're way past that and it works great. I say this having dealt with systemd in production since the early days and IMO there's no reason for continuing to hate on it.