4 ms·

My company has invested in moving to Azure except where we need to stay on Google. Apparently MS gave us a package on all of their products if we use Azure and

My company has invested in moving to Azure except where we need to stay on Google. Apparently MS gave us a package on all of their products if we use Azure and it was enough to sway the execs. We were then given the directive that everyone at my level would need to get some certifications so we could properly use Azure, assist the architects and more jr devs. It’s a good idea but my god the training is so poorly executed. I want to like Azure but it also seems like an uncoordinated mess. Maybe I’m just a grumpy dev. Anyone else have a better and more positive perspective? Who has good training for certs such as the Data Engineer or AI Engineer?

whoknowsidont 3y ago
>I want to like Azure but it also seems like an uncoordinated mess. It's literally a "me too" cloud. Azure is notorious for not being "finessed" out and god speed if you have to use AKS.
- jtwaleson 3y ago
  What are your main problems with AKS? I’m setting up a new greenfield project and have to use it. Would be nice to avoid done pitfalls.
  - aryonoco 3y ago
    I second this. Seriously, don't use AKS. It looks so nice in the docs. In practice, you'll run into so many issues, I'm convinced no one actually uses AKS in production for anything major. If your apps are simple enough that you can get away with Azure Container Instances/Apps, use them. If you need proper managed k8, use OpenShift. Microsoft has a partnership with RedHat and RH provides full support.
    - ahoka 3y ago
      Some examples of those issues would be nice to back up your claim.
      - Tknl 3y ago
        At my employer teams are preparing to extensively use hybrid AKS. I'd really appreciate hearing any of the issues encountered.
      - whoknowsidont 3y ago
        https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-service-in-production/ https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-...
        jtwaleson 3y ago
        Alright that’s pretty bad but also 5 years ago.
        whoknowsidont 3y ago
        Literally 4 weeks ago we had to migrated over to another host because we couldn't create another node pool. I don't think the age of the article matters.
        jtwaleson 3y ago
        Interesting, thanks!
    - hunterjrj 3y ago
      Microsoft uses AKS for their production workloads, but only for “minor” projects like “Office 365” which only has a “few” (200 million) users. https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/1536483517282553662-modernizing-microsoft-365-windows-containers-azure-kubernetes-service https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/1536483517282553...
      - whoknowsidont 3y ago
        What on God's green earth makes you think MS is going to release their dirty laundry to the public about one of their products using another one of their own products? Like there's a litany of literature of how AKS completely dropped the ball, you don't have to take anyone's word on it from this thread. The difference between AKS and other offerings is _striking_.
  - whoknowsidont 3y ago
    They come in different shapes and sizes. Stability of the host environment is the main thing. Don't have to take my word for it: https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-service-in-production/ https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-...
wodenokoto 3y ago
> Apparently MS gave us a package on all of their products if we use Azure and it was enough to sway the execs. For a long time this is why Azure has been beating GCP. GCP has been adement (not sure if still are) that prices are “what you see is what you get) and hope that small projects will suck you in. Microsoft however would wine and dine execs and then offer 50% discount on a xx million commitment. I agree on training and the like. Azure feels like such a mess.
- ajcp 3y ago
  > GCP has been adamant (not sure if still are) that prices are “what you see is what you get. Yes and no. GCP is going after the non-cloud products instead of the big cloud providers now. So going after Snowflake customers with BigQuery.
  - wodenokoto 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure its snowflake that went after BigQuery.
- aryonoco 3y ago
  Can confirm that even at I work, a state government department in Australia, which would be considered a medium size enterprise in most aspects, our standard price is a discount of just over 50% off the published price. When I want to calculate the price of a solution, I use their calculator, and then basically divide it in half. I assume if you're bigger, you probably get an even larger discount.
ajcp 3y ago
Architect here: I work in Azure; I love Azure; I totes feel your pain about Azure. Half of my solutions are hopscotching networks and NICs between services that should all just be one service. There are no obvious or repeatable patterns or configurations; every answer is "the right answer", which as an architect drives me up the f*king wall. I know MSFT likes to sell that as "complete and flexible configuration" but more often than not it's like: if your prescription to use this one service is so rigid as to use these four other services in such a way then when not just package them completely as such?
ahoka 3y ago
When I was last working with Azure it was impossible to just do one training every half year or so, because you needed three completed courses to complete the certificate, but they changed them every year, so you would need to take three different ones next year. Nonsense.
carlivar 3y ago
We are working to migrate from Azure to on-prem because it's so bad. It is an uncoordinated mess indeed.

whoknowsidont 3y ago

>I want to like Azure but it also seems like an uncoordinated mess. It's literally a "me too" cloud. Azure is notorious for not being "finessed" out and god speed if you have to use AKS.

jtwaleson 3y ago
What are your main problems with AKS? I’m setting up a new greenfield project and have to use it. Would be nice to avoid done pitfalls.
- aryonoco 3y ago
  I second this. Seriously, don't use AKS. It looks so nice in the docs. In practice, you'll run into so many issues, I'm convinced no one actually uses AKS in production for anything major. If your apps are simple enough that you can get away with Azure Container Instances/Apps, use them. If you need proper managed k8, use OpenShift. Microsoft has a partnership with RedHat and RH provides full support.
  - ahoka 3y ago
    Some examples of those issues would be nice to back up your claim.
    - Tknl 3y ago
      At my employer teams are preparing to extensively use hybrid AKS. I'd really appreciate hearing any of the issues encountered.
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-service-in-production/ https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-...
      - jtwaleson 3y ago
        Alright that’s pretty bad but also 5 years ago.
        whoknowsidont 3y ago
        Literally 4 weeks ago we had to migrated over to another host because we couldn't create another node pool. I don't think the age of the article matters.
        jtwaleson 3y ago
        Interesting, thanks!
  - hunterjrj 3y ago
    Microsoft uses AKS for their production workloads, but only for “minor” projects like “Office 365” which only has a “few” (200 million) users. https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/1536483517282553662-modernizing-microsoft-365-windows-containers-azure-kubernetes-service https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/1536483517282553...
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      What on God's green earth makes you think MS is going to release their dirty laundry to the public about one of their products using another one of their own products? Like there's a litany of literature of how AKS completely dropped the ball, you don't have to take anyone's word on it from this thread. The difference between AKS and other offerings is _striking_.
- whoknowsidont 3y ago
  They come in different shapes and sizes. Stability of the host environment is the main thing. Don't have to take my word for it: https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-service-in-production/ https://movingfulcrum.com/horrors-of-using-azure-kubernetes-...

wodenokoto 3y ago

> Apparently MS gave us a package on all of their products if we use Azure and it was enough to sway the execs. For a long time this is why Azure has been beating GCP. GCP has been adement (not sure if still are) that prices are “what you see is what you get) and hope that small projects will suck you in. Microsoft however would wine and dine execs and then offer 50% discount on a xx million commitment. I agree on training and the like. Azure feels like such a mess.

ajcp 3y ago
> GCP has been adamant (not sure if still are) that prices are “what you see is what you get. Yes and no. GCP is going after the non-cloud products instead of the big cloud providers now. So going after Snowflake customers with BigQuery.
- wodenokoto 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure its snowflake that went after BigQuery.
aryonoco 3y ago
Can confirm that even at I work, a state government department in Australia, which would be considered a medium size enterprise in most aspects, our standard price is a discount of just over 50% off the published price. When I want to calculate the price of a solution, I use their calculator, and then basically divide it in half. I assume if you're bigger, you probably get an even larger discount.

ajcp 3y ago

Architect here: I work in Azure; I love Azure; I totes feel your pain about Azure. Half of my solutions are hopscotching networks and NICs between services that should all just be one service. There are no obvious or repeatable patterns or configurations; every answer is "the right answer", which as an architect drives me up the f*king wall. I know MSFT likes to sell that as "complete and flexible configuration" but more often than not it's like: if your prescription to use this one service is so rigid as to use these four other services in such a way then when not just package them completely as such?

ahoka 3y ago

When I was last working with Azure it was impossible to just do one training every half year or so, because you needed three completed courses to complete the certificate, but they changed them every year, so you would need to take three different ones next year. Nonsense.

carlivar 3y ago

We are working to migrate from Azure to on-prem because it's so bad. It is an uncoordinated mess indeed.