5 ms·

What’s sad about this is that without backups of the old App Store as it existed at that time, you can’t do much beyond playing with the calculator and notes ap

What’s sad about this is that without backups of the old App Store as it existed at that time, you can’t do much beyond playing with the calculator and notes apps. Digital distribution and lock-in are a disaster for historical preservation.

JTon 3y ago
> Digital distribution and lock-in are a disaster for historical preservation. Agreed. This reality slapped me in the face quite hard after I was given an ipad 2 (circa 2011). I figured I'd use it as a couch-side device for spotify. Soon realized nothing worked on it, even with old version apps loaded. Server side shut it down.
- dkonofalski 3y ago
  That's partially because of web security, though, if I'm not mistaken. I have an old Windows PC and an old Mac mini that I use as servers and, outside of local stuff that's bridged to the outside network (and heavily crippled), I can't do much on them because of the changes to the TLS protocol for SSL certs. That means that the browsers won't connect to most modern servers, any apps that hardcoded instances of TSL can't connect to the internet, and, if I managed to get something to connect, it would be a huge security risk for anything on those machines. So, if the connection is being shut down on the server side, it's likely because of the TLS version mismatch. I thought it would be a simple solution just via updated software but was told (by peeps on Reddit, so it's likely to be total nonsense) that, although it can be updated, it won't run reliably on older hardware unless that hardware can also support newer OSs. Win7 and below (?) don't support it and MS won't provide updates with it and MacOS versions before Lion don't have it. I've heard you can also update OpenSSL by breaking the symlinks to the OS's install and get it working again but that's more hassle than I cared to put in. Also, most of those old iPads are able to be jailbroken. You can update OpenSSL on them and probably get Spotify working again.
  - gnyman 3y ago
    Yes. Although I would disagree with the statement "it would be a huge security risk for anything on those machines" Older TLS protocols have vulnerabilities yes, but most of them require a very motivated attacker with the ability to do a MITM. I wrote a blog post about why I have decided to support older protocols, https://blog.nyman.re/2021/02/07/usability-security.html https://blog.nyman.re/2021/02/07/usability-security.html , the tl.dr. is that only allowing new TLS just means more forced obsoletion. For Banks and other sensitive things, yes it makes sense, for your personal blog, not so much. I mean... Google still allows TLS 1.0 , if it was a "huge security risk", do you think they would? The updating OpenSSL/breaking symlinks sounds interesting, do you have more info? Personally I have a old iPhone 5S running iOS6 which I use for listening to podcasts. I ran in the the TLS issue there and my solution was to use a proxy https://bitbucket.org/ValdikSS/oldssl-proxy https://bitbucket.org/ValdikSS/oldssl-proxy Works well, and until maybe a year ago or I could even browse Apple's Podcast Store, but at some point that stopped working so now I'm stuck with the ones I have there. (Cydia still works though... Thanks Saurik)
darknavi 3y ago
100% agree, same with online games. I worked on a game called Minecraft Earth and it was a service-oriented game where you could collect things and play Minecraft in AR (fun project, not very fun game lol). It shut down a few years ago and we didn't get a chance to add an offline-only mode for even simple AR building, so now no one will ever be able to go back and play that game. It makes me really sad to see a whole product, a whole codebase just go poof.
- doctorpangloss 3y ago
  > a whole codebase just go poof. You didn't hold onto a copy?
  - beeboobaa 3y ago
    You steal source code from your past employers?
    - zdhgbdthdtv 3y ago
      That's both a baseless accusation and a rude one at that. Additionally, you are confusing stealing with making unauthorized copies.
      - beeboobaa 3y ago
        It's called a rhetorical question.
      - dkonofalski 3y ago
        Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics? Taking something without permission that doesn't belong to you is stealing. It may be justified stealing but it's still stealing.
        caslon 3y ago
        It's not taking, though. It's copying. Monks used to write books out by hand. If you were to go to a monastery, and copy a book line by line, you will have taken nothing at all. Nothing will be lost. It's not taking, it's not stealing. It's just making a copy. You are the one doing gymnastics.

JTon 3y ago

> Digital distribution and lock-in are a disaster for historical preservation. Agreed. This reality slapped me in the face quite hard after I was given an ipad 2 (circa 2011). I figured I'd use it as a couch-side device for spotify. Soon realized nothing worked on it, even with old version apps loaded. Server side shut it down.

dkonofalski 3y ago
That's partially because of web security, though, if I'm not mistaken. I have an old Windows PC and an old Mac mini that I use as servers and, outside of local stuff that's bridged to the outside network (and heavily crippled), I can't do much on them because of the changes to the TLS protocol for SSL certs. That means that the browsers won't connect to most modern servers, any apps that hardcoded instances of TSL can't connect to the internet, and, if I managed to get something to connect, it would be a huge security risk for anything on those machines. So, if the connection is being shut down on the server side, it's likely because of the TLS version mismatch. I thought it would be a simple solution just via updated software but was told (by peeps on Reddit, so it's likely to be total nonsense) that, although it can be updated, it won't run reliably on older hardware unless that hardware can also support newer OSs. Win7 and below (?) don't support it and MS won't provide updates with it and MacOS versions before Lion don't have it. I've heard you can also update OpenSSL by breaking the symlinks to the OS's install and get it working again but that's more hassle than I cared to put in. Also, most of those old iPads are able to be jailbroken. You can update OpenSSL on them and probably get Spotify working again.
- gnyman 3y ago
  Yes. Although I would disagree with the statement "it would be a huge security risk for anything on those machines" Older TLS protocols have vulnerabilities yes, but most of them require a very motivated attacker with the ability to do a MITM. I wrote a blog post about why I have decided to support older protocols, https://blog.nyman.re/2021/02/07/usability-security.html https://blog.nyman.re/2021/02/07/usability-security.html , the tl.dr. is that only allowing new TLS just means more forced obsoletion. For Banks and other sensitive things, yes it makes sense, for your personal blog, not so much. I mean... Google still allows TLS 1.0 , if it was a "huge security risk", do you think they would? The updating OpenSSL/breaking symlinks sounds interesting, do you have more info? Personally I have a old iPhone 5S running iOS6 which I use for listening to podcasts. I ran in the the TLS issue there and my solution was to use a proxy https://bitbucket.org/ValdikSS/oldssl-proxy https://bitbucket.org/ValdikSS/oldssl-proxy Works well, and until maybe a year ago or I could even browse Apple's Podcast Store, but at some point that stopped working so now I'm stuck with the ones I have there. (Cydia still works though... Thanks Saurik)

darknavi 3y ago

100% agree, same with online games. I worked on a game called Minecraft Earth and it was a service-oriented game where you could collect things and play Minecraft in AR (fun project, not very fun game lol). It shut down a few years ago and we didn't get a chance to add an offline-only mode for even simple AR building, so now no one will ever be able to go back and play that game. It makes me really sad to see a whole product, a whole codebase just go poof.

doctorpangloss 3y ago
> a whole codebase just go poof. You didn't hold onto a copy?
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  You steal source code from your past employers?
  - zdhgbdthdtv 3y ago
    That's both a baseless accusation and a rude one at that. Additionally, you are confusing stealing with making unauthorized copies.
    - beeboobaa 3y ago
      It's called a rhetorical question.
    - dkonofalski 3y ago
      Can we please stop with the mental gymnastics? Taking something without permission that doesn't belong to you is stealing. It may be justified stealing but it's still stealing.
      - caslon 3y ago
        It's not taking, though. It's copying. Monks used to write books out by hand. If you were to go to a monastery, and copy a book line by line, you will have taken nothing at all. Nothing will be lost. It's not taking, it's not stealing. It's just making a copy. You are the one doing gymnastics.