4 ms·

Let's hope it's not just another Electron-based abomination.

by miroljub 3y ago

dtx1 3y ago
Of course it is* *I'm writing this comment before looking it up because i am that sure.
- weikju 3y ago
  Don't worry, they don't say it in the article. But the "Screenshot" does sure look like one
plehoux 3y ago
CEO at Missive and proud developer of an electron based email client, I would love for you to try it and judge it's speed. It might change your opinion.
- mathverse 3y ago
  There is no performant snappy Electron app. Period.
- unnouinceput 3y ago
  The problem is not when everything is written with web as the main central point, the problem is when you compare that with a previous version that was a desktop client first, then in a rush to make it cross-platform they fuck it up. Hence the hate for Electron, because 99% of Electron apps out there are like this.
- havaloc 3y ago
  I am a very happy Missive user and have no qualms about their desktop client. I kind of knew it was likely Electron, but it is so performant that it really didn't cross my mind that it was non-native. People bashing Electron apps is just a trope these days; like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones.
zorr 3y ago
It probably is. Since they already have a working web app, why would they throw all that away and start a new project from scratch targeting 3 platforms (MacOS, Linux and Windows) and triple the maintenance burden? I'm assuming they have reworked their current web app into an electron (or similar) desktop application and going forward they can make changes and immediately push out to both web and desktop.
- aurareturn 3y ago
  We should ask people who complain about Electron apps if they're willing to pay an extra $20/month to pay for a team of developers to make and maintain a native app for each platform. I'd bet they say no. If they say yes, they're lying.
  - teekert 3y ago
    I'm on Linux and elecron apps are always good news for me, because I know I won't be left out ;)
    - fifteen1506 3y ago
      Unless you're using Evernote. Private Beta for Evernote for Linux and afterwards..... An email saying they are stopping the development of Evernote Linux :) PS: Electron, AFAIK.
      - teekert 3y ago
        Damn, that's some low effort for Linux people. Well I’m using Obsidian. They’re on some old version of electron. Which is annoying but it works well other than that it requires some exception in my Nix config.
jorvi 3y ago
That ship has sailed. If I look at my Dock right now, from left to right I'm running: - Nautilus - Brave (Chromium) - Gnome-terminal - VSCode (Electron) - Telegram Desktop (̶E̶l̶e̶c̶t̶r̶o̶n̶ QT)[1] - WhatsApp (web wrapper in Electron)[1] - Discord (Electron) - Spotify (Chromium Embedded Framework) - Betterbird (Gecko, might as well be Electron) - TickTick (Electron) - Steam (Chromium Embedded Framework) In a way it is very interesting to me, Chromium has pretty much become a "kernel" of sorts that all web technologies run atop. And I don't really buy the "Chromium gives Google power over the web", as it is permissively licensed, and there is at least one other giant stakeholder in the form of Microsoft. Kind of makes me wish GNU and Apple would do what Microsoft has done, integrate a Chromium-based WebView into the OS and optimize it to the gills. The battle between Blink (Chromium), WebKit and Gecko has already been lost, might as well give your users the best UX they can get. [1]There is work being done on native GTK clients by third parties, namely - Paper Plane for Telegram: https://github.com/paper-plane-developers/paper-plane https://github.com/paper-plane-developers/paper-plane - Whakarere for Whatsapp: https://github.com/tobagin/whakarere https://github.com/tobagin/whakarere
- afavour 3y ago
  > Kind of makes me wish GNU and Apple would do what Microsoft has done, integrate a Chromium-based WebView into the OS It’s not Chromium based but Apple does have exactly this in the OS. Given both Chromium and WebKit target the same web standards there should be a solid crossover. The reality isn’t there but it wouldn’t take much (except for willingness on Apple’s part, which is hard to come by)
  - jorvi 3y ago
    Yeah I know Apple has their own WkWebview (maybe they were even the first? not sure). But as you pointed out, it requires devs to look out for any edge cases / missing features it has in comparison to Chromium's Webview. The nice thing about a universal Webview is that devs no longer have to spend time testing across web engines. All they would have to do is test against a few generations of Chromium. I know that's not a thing free software stans like to think about or hear because its already been happening in slow-motion, with less and less devs testing against anything but Chromium, but I feel there are strong benefits to it. In a way its the SystemD debacle all over again. Centralization like that feels spooky and very un-unixy, but it brings such an enormous host of benefits.
whyoh 3y ago
It is. And like a typical Electron app, it installs automatically in a user-writable location, ignoring basic security standards.
juliend2 3y ago
At least then we could say "A Proton got an Electron". And they could therefore call their app "Hydrogen", to make it more nerdy. Sorry that was useless.

Let's hope it's not just another Electron-based abomination.

dtx1 3y ago

Of course it is* *I'm writing this comment before looking it up because i am that sure.

weikju 3y ago
Don't worry, they don't say it in the article. But the "Screenshot" does sure look like one

plehoux 3y ago

CEO at Missive and proud developer of an electron based email client, I would love for you to try it and judge it's speed. It might change your opinion.

mathverse 3y ago
There is no performant snappy Electron app. Period.
unnouinceput 3y ago
The problem is not when everything is written with web as the main central point, the problem is when you compare that with a previous version that was a desktop client first, then in a rush to make it cross-platform they fuck it up. Hence the hate for Electron, because 99% of Electron apps out there are like this.
havaloc 3y ago
I am a very happy Missive user and have no qualms about their desktop client. I kind of knew it was likely Electron, but it is so performant that it really didn't cross my mind that it was non-native. People bashing Electron apps is just a trope these days; like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones.

zorr 3y ago

It probably is. Since they already have a working web app, why would they throw all that away and start a new project from scratch targeting 3 platforms (MacOS, Linux and Windows) and triple the maintenance burden? I'm assuming they have reworked their current web app into an electron (or similar) desktop application and going forward they can make changes and immediately push out to both web and desktop.

aurareturn 3y ago
We should ask people who complain about Electron apps if they're willing to pay an extra $20/month to pay for a team of developers to make and maintain a native app for each platform. I'd bet they say no. If they say yes, they're lying.
- teekert 3y ago
  I'm on Linux and elecron apps are always good news for me, because I know I won't be left out ;)
  - fifteen1506 3y ago
    Unless you're using Evernote. Private Beta for Evernote for Linux and afterwards..... An email saying they are stopping the development of Evernote Linux :) PS: Electron, AFAIK.
    - teekert 3y ago
      Damn, that's some low effort for Linux people. Well I’m using Obsidian. They’re on some old version of electron. Which is annoying but it works well other than that it requires some exception in my Nix config.

jorvi 3y ago

That ship has sailed. If I look at my Dock right now, from left to right I'm running: - Nautilus - Brave (Chromium) - Gnome-terminal - VSCode (Electron) - Telegram Desktop (̶E̶l̶e̶c̶t̶r̶o̶n̶ QT)[1] - WhatsApp (web wrapper in Electron)[1] - Discord (Electron) - Spotify (Chromium Embedded Framework) - Betterbird (Gecko, might as well be Electron) - TickTick (Electron) - Steam (Chromium Embedded Framework) In a way it is very interesting to me, Chromium has pretty much become a "kernel" of sorts that all web technologies run atop. And I don't really buy the "Chromium gives Google power over the web", as it is permissively licensed, and there is at least one other giant stakeholder in the form of Microsoft. Kind of makes me wish GNU and Apple would do what Microsoft has done, integrate a Chromium-based WebView into the OS and optimize it to the gills. The battle between Blink (Chromium), WebKit and Gecko has already been lost, might as well give your users the best UX they can get. [1]There is work being done on native GTK clients by third parties, namely - Paper Plane for Telegram: https://github.com/paper-plane-developers/paper-plane https://github.com/paper-plane-developers/paper-plane - Whakarere for Whatsapp: https://github.com/tobagin/whakarere https://github.com/tobagin/whakarere

afavour 3y ago
> Kind of makes me wish GNU and Apple would do what Microsoft has done, integrate a Chromium-based WebView into the OS It’s not Chromium based but Apple does have exactly this in the OS. Given both Chromium and WebKit target the same web standards there should be a solid crossover. The reality isn’t there but it wouldn’t take much (except for willingness on Apple’s part, which is hard to come by)
- jorvi 3y ago
  Yeah I know Apple has their own WkWebview (maybe they were even the first? not sure). But as you pointed out, it requires devs to look out for any edge cases / missing features it has in comparison to Chromium's Webview. The nice thing about a universal Webview is that devs no longer have to spend time testing across web engines. All they would have to do is test against a few generations of Chromium. I know that's not a thing free software stans like to think about or hear because its already been happening in slow-motion, with less and less devs testing against anything but Chromium, but I feel there are strong benefits to it. In a way its the SystemD debacle all over again. Centralization like that feels spooky and very un-unixy, but it brings such an enormous host of benefits.

whyoh 3y ago

It is. And like a typical Electron app, it installs automatically in a user-writable location, ignoring basic security standards.

juliend2 3y ago

At least then we could say "A Proton got an Electron". And they could therefore call their app "Hydrogen", to make it more nerdy. Sorry that was useless.