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If we need those jobs so much, then perhaps we should treat the people who do them with respect. Like by giving them predictable, full-time schedules and health

If we need those jobs so much, then perhaps we should treat the people who do them with respect. Like by giving them predictable, full-time schedules and health insurance.

arp242 3y ago
Yes I agree; that was my point more or less: people should be able to work these "poor jobs" and still have a reasonable standard of living. I'm okay with people being "poor relative to middle class", as long as everyone has a reasonable standard of living (barring exceptional circumstances).
arcbyte 3y ago
This is an interesting comment because there are jobs like this out there. Absolutely companies exist which pay janitors very well. Companies exist owned by janitors who make tons of money. Many, many companies also exist that are absolutely of low quality. It would be good to explore this disparity more. Just because there's a job called "janitor" doesn't mean it is valued the same way in every context, even if we might argue it should. Why?
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I’m speaking from my personal experience of working such jobs. It’s a perspective that seems oddly rare on this forum. The well-respected, well-paid working class job may exist, but as someone who actually did the work and still knows a lot of people who do, I suspect it’s a myth.
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    I agree with you. In 1975, the janitor was an employee of a company whose premises they were cleaning. It was theoretically possible for the janitor to become CEO one day, or at least an executive. [1] Today, the janitor probably works for a contractor hired by the company who bills them out at a multiple of what they actually get paid. They probably don't have very good benefits, are lucky if they can afford the health insurance offered, and probably can't really afford to contribute to a 401k. I would much rather be a janitor in 1975 than 2023. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Monta%C3%B1ez https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Monta%C3%B1ez
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    Even jobs like "mailman", which you'd think is a modest government job with decent benefits, have suffered. A lot of mail carriers are precarious contractors without a fixed schedule.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
And this means society investing in technologies that dramatically improve their job. E.g. janitors of the future maintaining advanced robots and lighting systems that keep everything operational and healthy.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I think it means investing in worker protections for the janitors of today.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Both, protect workers of today, and government r&d investments into ways to make their lives even better.

If we need those jobs so much, then perhaps we should treat the people who do them with respect. Like by giving them predictable, full-time schedules and health insurance.

arp242 3y ago

Yes I agree; that was my point more or less: people should be able to work these "poor jobs" and still have a reasonable standard of living. I'm okay with people being "poor relative to middle class", as long as everyone has a reasonable standard of living (barring exceptional circumstances).

arcbyte 3y ago

This is an interesting comment because there are jobs like this out there. Absolutely companies exist which pay janitors very well. Companies exist owned by janitors who make tons of money. Many, many companies also exist that are absolutely of low quality. It would be good to explore this disparity more. Just because there's a job called "janitor" doesn't mean it is valued the same way in every context, even if we might argue it should. Why?

hotpotamus 3y ago
I’m speaking from my personal experience of working such jobs. It’s a perspective that seems oddly rare on this forum. The well-respected, well-paid working class job may exist, but as someone who actually did the work and still knows a lot of people who do, I suspect it’s a myth.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  I agree with you. In 1975, the janitor was an employee of a company whose premises they were cleaning. It was theoretically possible for the janitor to become CEO one day, or at least an executive. [1] Today, the janitor probably works for a contractor hired by the company who bills them out at a multiple of what they actually get paid. They probably don't have very good benefits, are lucky if they can afford the health insurance offered, and probably can't really afford to contribute to a 401k. I would much rather be a janitor in 1975 than 2023. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Monta%C3%B1ez https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Monta%C3%B1ez
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  Even jobs like "mailman", which you'd think is a modest government job with decent benefits, have suffered. A lot of mail carriers are precarious contractors without a fixed schedule.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

And this means society investing in technologies that dramatically improve their job. E.g. janitors of the future maintaining advanced robots and lighting systems that keep everything operational and healthy.

hotpotamus 3y ago
I think it means investing in worker protections for the janitors of today.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Both, protect workers of today, and government r&d investments into ways to make their lives even better.