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I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

258 points by cwan 14y ago

AznHisoka 14y ago
alljapaneseallthetime.com basically recommends same techniques: listening first, then verbal. He even goes to the extreme of listening to the foreign language 24/7, even in your sleep. Have kanji (or hanzi, or arabic) posters displayed in your bathroom. Turn the radio on when you're in the shower. Listen to podcasts when you're at work and subway. Keep those podcasts on while you're sleeping so you hear it first thing when you wake up. Immerse yourself completely, and it'll almost be the same as listening in that foreign country.
5vforest 14y ago
This is great -- although IMO not a replacement for programs like Rosetta Stone, as this method requires significantly more dedication.
- binarycrusader 14y ago
  I often see Rosetta Stone advertised and mentioned, and I even briefly toyed with a demo version in the past, but it didn't click for me. Can anyone provide their own success story for Rosetta or a competing alternative?
  - SpiderX 14y ago
    Rosetta Stone worked great for me. I learned Russian in about 6 months, my wife says my pronunciation is perfect. Well, she wasn't my wife when I met her, and she didn't speak any english, so it was motivation enough for me to learn to speak Russian. It helps that I have someone to practice with. I'd say if you are going to be doing Rosetta Stone, it helps if you do it every day without fail for a minimum of 30 minutes a day. When I was studying, I did 30 minutes twice a day. Any periods longer than 30 minutes, and I found that my brain didn't retain as much. But, if I took that hour and split it into two sessions about 3 hours apart, that did the trick. It also helps to study right before you go to bed. Now it's not very difficult for me to speak Russian. I don't think of the english first and then translate it - I just think of the russian words and how to say what I want. Sometimes I don't know the word, and I have to describe what I want to say. Anyway, I am at a point now that I am learning new words every day just by speaking.
  - showerst 14y ago
    Rosetta has improved quite a bit over the last few versions. I tried a copy a few years back and wasn't too impressed, then saw it again last year and they actually had working voice recognition that judged your pronunciation! They also have an iPad version out now which seems like a great fit. The one big thing I've noticed is that they're a bit random on what they teach you. I remember the Arabic 1 program taking quite a few lessons before teaching 'bathroom', for example.
  - sswezey 14y ago
    Competing alternative - do what this guy is doing Rosetta Stone isn't supported by most linguists who study foreign language acquisition. It is also ridiculously overpriced and never explicitly teaches even basic grammar, something which FSI points out helps almost 100% of learners.
  - mdaniel 14y ago
    I bought all 5 levels of Rosetta French version 3, and I lambast it at every opportunity. There is one positive item, one huge negative and one poor implementation point. The positive is that I think the mechanism, or put another way the Rosetta Stone platform, is mostly good. The combination of visual and aural, with a relatively simple screen-is-one-concept approach, is good. The negative for me was the actual content itself. I learned about ladders, and horses and crazy things that not once have I encountered here in Paris. It would have been helpful to learn food items, grocery store items, things folks (even tourists) would likely find useful. I hesitate to mention this because it might not have been a Rosetta Stone objective, nor might it fit into their framework/platform. But, there were no verb tense lessons. Even just rote learning of "je voudrais ..." [I would like ...] would get you out of 80% of the conversational jams when trying to get a sandwich, or similar. The poor implementation point is that I did not experience any good luck using their voice recognition engine. Perhaps it is because I really have horrible French pronunciation. However, isn't that the very situation Rosetta is trying to correct? I found no way to discover why it was upset with my pronunciation. It was just a very frustration experience.
    - rms25 14y ago
      Pimsleur is all about pronunciation, you should try it.
      - mdaniel 14y ago
        I thought that Pimsleur was basically a language podcast: i.e. unidirectional content. _Hearing_ someone speak a native language is not the same as having ones pronunciation evaluated, which is also separate from learning proper pronunciation. But yes, after hearing all of the raving reviews in this thread, maybe I should give it a closer look.
        dpark 14y ago
        The first lesson is free in most (all?) languages, so you can give it a try if you want. You just have to give them an email address. After the reviews in this thread, I decided to give it a try, and it seems like a nice product. I'm planning to buy the first level (Italian), and I'm now just trying to decide between the audio-only and the "Unlimited" that they've introduced recently, which throws in flash cards and some reading material. It is "one way", but if you're able to dedicate time to it, the "they pronounce", "you pronounce" will probably work well. If you're halfway listening in the car, then it probably won't work.
kenrikm 14y ago
English/Spanish here. My wife is Cuban and did not speak much English when I meet her so it was a Huge motivating factor. ;) Italian and Portuguese will be next for me as once you know Spanish you automatically know big chunks of other Latin based languages.
graeme 14y ago
Another great resource is Pimsleur. I've used their courses to learn Italian and German. It's a half hour of audio each day. The key is that you speak out loud. You can do it while cooking or driving, or any other activity that is routine and non-verbal. They teach you to pronounce phrases very well, and you learn the basic structure of the language. Once you can say "I would like a glass of wine", you can easily learn to say "I would like X". When I got to Italy, people thought I had been living there for a year. There are only two things you MUST do: 1. Do a lesson every day. 2. Speak out loud, in a normal conversational tone. The program is teaching you to have conversations. I love these courses so much that I'm compelled to gush about them whenever language learning is mentioned. They won't make you a native speaker, but you'll quickly reach a level where you can advance rapidly.
- nik_0_0 14y ago
  I'm only a few lessons into Pimsleur but it is quite interesting. I understand the concept of speaking out loud, but I hope normal conversational tone is not required! I do these on the bus, which means I can mouth the words and speak in a quiet voice, but talking makes me look like a crazy person!
  - keiferski 14y ago
    Just get a pair of iPhone earbuds (with a microphone). That way you can pretend to be on the phone.
    - pavel_lishin 14y ago
      Then, instead of a crazy person, you look like an asshole.
      - polymatter 14y ago
        Why do you care what other people think? Seriously, just whisper and accept the stares. That's what I do. People lose interest in you after a while anyway.
mtjl79 14y ago
As an American who speaks multiple languages, the thing for me was learning the first. When you learn another language you get a true understand of your own language that other people don't understand who are not bilingual. After you learn a second language, others get much much easier and the learning curve is much shorter.
- brucejaywallace 14y ago
  I also noticed this....it also gets easier depending on the language.... I'm learning Spanish right now, and for example, Portuguese and Italian can at times be very similar
  - pavel_lishin 14y ago
    I learned a fair bit of Spanish in high school, already knowing English and Russian. A lot of the language constructs were similar to Russian, so they just clicked easily in my mind. Lost most of it by now, of course. I can call a guy an asshole, and I can buy him a beer, but the bit in the middle where I apologize - that, I can't do :P
LyleK 14y ago
Great tips! Another fascinating (Creative Commons-licensed!) framework I have heard about recently is Language Hunters. http://www.languagehunters.org http://www.languagehunters.org. Their methods involve playing games with native speakers, in person or via Skype. They claim someone can reach fluency in a few months.
why-el 14y ago
I speak three languages fluently (Arabic, French, and English), and I have the same advice for anybody who wants to learn a new language: - Watch their news media. For instance, if you are learning Arabic, then watch Arabic media. It might be tough at first, but just go at it. Be a baby. Babies bombard their minds with input and eventually patterns form. - Pick a TV show you saw and watch the whole thing again using language-you-want-to-learn subtitles. This can be fun, and well things will be mentioned so often they will stick. This is extremely effective, and my English vocabulary improved dramatically this way. I prefer this to carrying cards and trying to memorize them. Its unnatural. - Go to a country that speaks it.
- oops 14y ago
  Comprehension exercises using foreign music videos and magazines can be good too, for the less formal stuff.
- meepmorp 14y ago
  Movies, too. When I was learning Russian in college, we'd be assigned a 5-10 ten minute segment of a movie and have to transcribe it for homework. It took forever at first, but it really helped my listening comprehension improve quickly.
  - why-el 14y ago
    Yes, movies too. I just liked TV Show more because they last longer and they provide a lasting context.
- ashconnor 14y ago
  Can you recommend a good Arabic TV show?
  - why-el 14y ago
    Oh I don't know. I am actually a native Arabic speaker so never needed TV shows for that purpose. And there is one issue you will face if you want to learn Arabic watching Arabic TV Shows: Any show you pick will be in some colloquial form of Arabic and not Classic Arabic. The most popular ones across the Middle East now are in Turkish dubbed in Lebanese Arabic (Yeah :p), and seconds are Egyptian TV shows, so you will have to choose. Pretty much any country makes TV Shows in its own version of Arabic, except in Syria where they used to make historical TV Shows in Classical Arabic. What I suggest is to watch news outlets like Aljazeera, which you can watch online for free [1]. Don't pay attention to the existing perception of Al Jazeera; they are very professional. And, relevant to our discussion, their Arabic is the best around. If in doubt, get a feeling of their editorial policies watching Al Jazeera English, then proceed to learn Arabic. Good Luck [1] http://www.aljazeera.net/livestreaming/pages http://www.aljazeera.net/livestreaming/pages
huherto 14y ago
Learning a second language allows you to appreciate the commitment that it requires. People who has never gone thru the process, don't appreciate it and they think it is a matter of studying six months one hour a day. I had a supervisor who said that he was going to learn Spanish (at 55) so we can tell him stuff that we didn't know how to say in English. I have been learning English for 23 years since I was 21. I felt this was insulting. Somehow he thought he could do it; may be he felt he was smarter than us because his English was fluent. Of course he was never able to say anything in Spanish.
acqq 14y ago
I just don't believe his claim: "C1 fluency in French in about 5 months" if he started from 0 unless he didn't do anything but learning the language in the target country. C1 is a damn high fluency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Re... "Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer texts, and recognise implicit meaning. Can express him/herself fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions. Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes. Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organisational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices." I'm a long-time foreigner in a German-speaking country, learning German after already speaking two more languages apart from my mother tongue, not knowing German before I came here, so I know how many nuances a living language has. Had he say A2, or B1 if he's a language talent, I'd believe him, C1, I can't imagine. I can only guess he didn't actually try to pass some formal verification tests, or he didn't start from 0, there simply must be something he avoided to say. Or he simply lies to himself (and us) that it's actually C1 what he reached in five months.
- tagawa 14y ago
  I think we should cut the guy some slack, here. He's laid out a structured plan for anyone to freely follow if they wish. Even if they don't follow it step-by-step, there are still some great tips to improve language-learning efficiency. Personally, this looks much more effective than the textbook I'm currently using so I'll give it a try. We have no idea whether his timeframe claims are true or not (in which case, how can we criticize?) but any outcome of following his advice is going to be positive.
  - jardiamj 14y ago
    I speak three languages pretty well, two of them are of Latin origin (Spanish and Portuguese), and Spanish being my native language. I got really fluent in Portuguese in about 6 months, but those who know how close Spanish and Portuguese are, will know that that's not a hard task. But to get fluent in English it took me some years, living in the U.S. I also know enough to understand Polish, but speaking it is pretty hard for me. With that said, I can say with a lot of confidence that this guy is most likely to be lying.
pavel_lishin 14y ago
Anki is definitely not free on mobile devices.
- socksy 14y ago
  Whilst the iPhone one isn't free, the Android version is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDMsImNvbS5pY2hpMi5hbmtpIl0 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki...
  - klez 14y ago
    Also free as in freedom (GPL)
- teamonkey 14y ago
  Anki lets you sync your flash cards to their free web service which works well under mobile safari.
alasano 14y ago
I was forced to leave my home country at the age of 3 because of war and then after 6 years in Germany we were given no choice but to leave the country since the refugees were costing the German government too much money and various other reasons. There's plenty of time to make a new life in 6 years only to be forced to throw it all away. We were given a choice between Australia, the US and Canada. We ended up in Quebec city where I've been for almost 14 years now (since September 98'). Even though the journey was hard for the 4 of us, harder for my parents than for me and my sister, I regret nothing. I'm fluent in 4 languages and functional in 2 others with a brain wired for learning to speak. Upon arrival at 9 years old I was the best in French after only 1 year, in a school filled mostly with people raised on the language. Plus I was picking up English at an amazing rate thanks to the Simpsons playing 6x more often than in Germany. Add subtitles and the fact that I knew all the episodes anyways and you get an abnormal learning rate. What I'm trying to say is, bullshit as to C1 fluency, I was under ideal conditions to get there (and C2) in a little less than a year with a brain that acts like a sponge at that age. His method may get him towards his objectives faster but I think he may overestimate his abilities.
mshafrir 14y ago
If you need help deciding which language to learn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_...
- WildUtah 14y ago
  That list is misleading. 1. Mandarin Lots of people, but spoken in only two countries (China and Singapore) and essentially nowhere else. 2. Spanish With only half the number of speakers of Mandarin, Spanish is the second most widely spoken language in the world. The people of over twenty countries on three continents prefer it. 3. English Only third in speakers, but the most widely spoken language, number one in both art and commerce. 4. Hindi Spoken in only two countries. 5. Arabic The world's third most widely used language, but usually spoken in places where you just can't use it to pick up girls. (Unless you are a girl yourself)
  - vellum 14y ago
    If you're going to use Arabic to pick up women in conservative Middle Eastern countries, you need to: 1.) buy a phone with bluetooth [1], 2.) learn the Arabic chat alphabet [2]. Links: 1: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916890/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/saudi-arabia-high-tech-way-flirt/#.T5CGYDJYuU4 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916890/ns/world_news-mideast_n_... 2:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet
  - swang 14y ago
    You forgot Taiwan/ROC under Mandarin. Also there are a lot of cities in the US (or at least in California) where you can get by just speaking Mandarin/Cantonese. Also, how is that list misleading? The title is, "List of languages by number of native speakers" and not, "List of languages by some specific importance"
    - WildUtah 14y ago
      1. There is only one China. The pretenders in Beijing will be overthrown soon enough. 2. The list is misleading if used, as suggested, to prioritize languages to learn. It seems accurate enough as far as sheer numbers go. 3. California should just be marked as an exception to every list of facts. (The only country where you can comfortably live you life speaking only Vietnamese, except California; the first twenty digits of pi, except in California; &c)
sparknlaunch12 14y ago
Immersion is most powerful. ie living in the country, forcing you to live, eat, breath the language. However as described, a mixture of techniques is needed. Writing, reading, talking, listening. Plus practice, practice, practice. There are a few examples of people learning languages quickly... Like get fluent in 3 months. Once you understand the mechanics it is easier. Also some languages are easier than others. Germanic languages 'should' be easier for English speakers.
countersixte 14y ago
http://www.memrise.com http://www.memrise.com is another spaced repetition alternative to Anki. You'd need another tool to practice your grammar, but for vocab alone it works great.
- Scaevolus 14y ago
  Memorizing vocab in that way is less efficient than SRSing whole sentences, where you get semantics, contexts, and grammar at the same time.
surferoso 14y ago
downvote me please, but why is this on HN? I am currently learning Swedish just because we moved here for work, but English is the language we ALL speak at work, no matter where we come from. most HNers would need to learn a language if they get a job overseas for daily survival outside of work, @ work I bet 100% will be speaking English.
- mdaniel 14y ago
  My guess is because it falls under the topic of "brain hacking". Plus, I hear your point about pragmatics, but I am also appreciative of the exercise of learning the language as part of expanding ones horizons. "Walk a mile in his shoes" kind of deal, which only gets lip service unless one has actually needed to switch mental, cultural and linguistic contexts. I also honestly think that more Americans are not bilingual (or perhaps even interested in such a thing) because of the lack of opportunity to use that skill.
- throwawaytruth 14y ago
  Anything that falls within topic as long as the author frames to match the guidelines ("anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"). Don't believe me? Try looking back at some of the /best lists in archive.org for politics, crime, or sports. They are there and it's the high rep Hners posting them. This is all about framing it right as long as you are seen in a favorable condition for framing the item. So yeah, that's how it is. I am sure to expect a counter stating why this is on-topic, or how this one topic is rare etc etc. Framing. Frame shit well, anything looks like gold. ---- The backstory? HN tells you to read http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html and http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html but not even the regulars do it. No one follows the rules, because the rules are the regulars and hive mind make the rules. They make this their land to stomp on all and armchair speak. And that's the truth. I can pull references all day. If ever tried swearing here? Or giving a point against the masses? Downvoted right? Blame the hive mind and their inability to think on their own. Now check a regular high rep HNer. He swears, he goes against the masses tells them "What are you all thinking? I am ashamed of these comments here" A bazillion votes right? Same content, different framing. Before this post ends up as a dead link from users with too much emotion overflowed from the workplace, remember if you want to do well in this community, here are some steps to follow. I assure you these work. I've experimented with them and have studied high rep members for months * Circle jerk with reference, your point must inflate the previous point if not disagree with reference. * Frame your shit. Follow the masters and their styling, they can make cooking a pasta HN worthy. It's amazing actually they really do have that bullshit making skill * Bring in completely tangential points and references to counter anything written. The aim of the game is to disagree with just the right level of snark * Never ask why HN is the way it is, this will only upset the hivemind, they don't like their emotions swayed. * Attack YC companies, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, the community gets a kick out of this, they love seeing them fail and pointing how crappy they but never when those companies are busting their chops making something successful * If you are really really really angry about something someone wrote, use a throwaway account this is key. HN regulars do this, all the time. * Never interact with an HNer out of HN, not on twitter not on forums not on anywhere. The pseudonymity high they get off of being here makes them who they are. Don't take that away from them. * Never comment on the original article (Cannot let the author know all the snark and non constructive criticism you leave them can you?) * If you find a cool product on the internet that is not free, find a way to clone it in a weekend and put in on Github on rails and say "Tell HN: This is my piss poor clone done over the weekend give me karma now" pg once/twice/three times?/I lost count/ tried to fix this community but it's not fixable when the top community members fail to see they are full of themselves and imparting that notion to newcomers that this is how the conversation and behaviour must be. You may ask, why am I still here? Well you see, after you get past the circle jerk inflated ego mindset, there is actually treasure in here. And that sucks. Love/hate relationship I tell you. Did I once say frame your shit? If you haven't already, would you mind reading about HN's approach to comments?
atroche 14y ago
I've been having an awesome time learning Spanish using http://duolingo.com http://duolingo.com for the past few weeks.
Jun8 14y ago
I looked at the estimates for learning difficulty for English speakers (http://voxy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/110329-VOXY-HARDLANGUAGES-FINAL-WIDE.png http://voxy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/110329-VOXY-...) and saw that they mix together the language difficulty with the difficulty of the writing system. For example, Japanese (labeled hard) and Turkish (labeled medium) are similar (relatively speaking, looking from a English speaker's vantage, also add Korean to this group). In the explanation for why Japanese is so difficulty they mention the three different writing systems, etc., which is true (some consider the convoluted Japanese writing system to be the most complex in the world, on par with Maya hieroglyphs). But what if you want to learn just spoken Japanase? Similarly, what if you wanted to learn Turkish in the 1910s when it was still using the (modified) Arabic alphabet? As for the "thousands of characters" scare for Chinese, I've read estimates that for daily communication you can make do with less than a thousand characters.
- wisty 14y ago
  Good luck learning "spoken" anything without any decent texts to read. You could listen to the radio / watch movies, but you'll find the dialogue is way too fast and not very coherent (dialogue isn't structured very nicely, it's more free form, so you can't follow it as easily). You won't catch many words. If you have a tutor, they might be able to gradually build you up, but you won't have the hours with them. Reading at your own pace is a better way to build your vocabulary and grammar. You're right about the "thousands of characters" thing - a lot of Chinese writing is pretty simple (in terms of character use - simple characters are usually combined to form longer words, the first thousand goes a looong way), as long as you stay clear of classical Chinese literature (at which point, even some Chinese give up).
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > As for the "thousands of characters" scare for Chinese, I've read estimates that for daily communication you can make do with less than a thousand characters. It's not that hard. After years of frustration at being essentially illiterate in Japanese while having a decent level of spoken fluency, I've finally buckled down and started learning the kanji using Remembering the Kanji in combination with Anki. It really is possible to learn 20 kanji a day if you dedicate about 45 minutes of time. There's a similar book called Remembering the Hanzi (both Traditional and Simplified versions are available) that you can use to much the same effect. At 20 per day, you can learn the 5000 hanzi that are said to cover just about everything you might come across in day-to-day life in less than a year.
vertis 14y ago
Awesome story. I had to laugh at the part where you linked the language difficulties. I had a somewhat abortive attempt to learn Chinese last year (we have an office over there). I don't think I've ever come up against something quite so hard as trying to get the tones right in Chinese.
DanBC 14y ago
This is what happens when I try to learn a language by watching movies. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cAnFbEXY0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cAnFbEXY0&feature=relat...) This is also pretty much what happens to me when I'm in the US. I think I'm talking real words, but people don't understand me.
- virtualeyes 14y ago
  LMAO! Thank you. It's the same for me when I'm in England, the locals just don't understand me. "you know what I mean, right?", I say, and they respond with, "oh, royt, e means royt!" WTF is royt, can't these people articulate themselves properly? k-rist they invented the language and we had to improve it, god bless America, rush limpbag and everything that makes the homeland free of the brave. "ave a pint yank, ave a pint"
zerostar07 14y ago
Once i used a chrome extension to replace web banners with flashcards. Now i 'm bombarded with words. http://projectilo.com/113 http://projectilo.com/113
awayand 14y ago
dont believe everything you read
inspiredworlds 14y ago
Its great to see this kind of discussion on Hacker News and how people are hacking their way to learning a language. I think its kinda difficult to obtain that level of fluency without living in the country, being immersed, and communicating with other people. There are certainly tools and ways that can aid you to learn - I've done similar things to learn a language such as learning from movies/tv shows/CD's/books/mobile apps/sitting near people on the train and listening to their conversation. I've actually made it my mission to make languages fun and easy to learn, and started a company called Native Tongue. If you are interested in learning a language check out our vocabulary mobile apps for Spanish and Mandarin. They're called Spanish Smash and Mandarin Madness. http://nativetongue.com/ http://nativetongue.com/
drucken 14y ago
This guy's method is a very solid approach to learning languages especially for Romance and Germanic languages, even if his claimed results (C1 in 5 months) are hard to believe for ordinary people. Two other resources which are inline with his approach are the Assimil series, which is highly regarded by non-academic linguists (and some practical academics), and the LingQ words-in-context language learning website.
sakopov 14y ago
My native language is Russian and I have never met a foreigner who mastered it even after years and years of practice. It is almost unheard of to find a foreigner who can speak and pronounce correctly. Usually it's one or the other. The majority of native Russians spend 12 years learning Russian grammar and still cannot spell right. I find it hard to believe that a non-native speaker could. On the other hand it took me 3 months to become fluent in English at 14 while attending a high school in the US. Another 6 months to lose my accent and by the end of the year i was thinking in English. Being immersed in the culture of native speakers is probably the best way to learn any language. However, overcoming the complexity of a language is sometimes very difficult/impossible.
everyguy 14y ago
I taught myself Japanese using basically this method and it works.
krollew 14y ago
It migh sound unbelievable, but why not? I'm learning Ukrainian and Russian for 3,5 months. I understand Ukrainian just like that and understand Russian quite well; written and spoken. I speak ukrainian quite good and start to speak russian (because I started with ukrainian and didn't write russian first). It was 3,5months of nearly no effort maybe couple hours a week. OK, I'm polish so slavic languages are nothing new to me, but many people learnt russian here with nearly no result. I think it's way of learning. I just started write and read ukrainian and russian bit later. If I learnt familar language so fast with no effort why not to learn european language in 5 months of some effort? It's possible since european languages are not completely different and I know english and understand german now. Well, maybe it won't be C1, but I can believe there are people with better language skills than me.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
kentosi 14y ago
If he claims that he's now fluent in French then he needs to back this up with a posting of his voice (or a youtube clip) of him speaking in it. Let that be the judge of how fluent he is.
- theycallmemorty 14y ago
  Couldn't that be easily faked? Anyone could memorize a speech in another language and make sure to get the accent/intonation down before recording. If he's an Opera singer he's already experienced in this.
JohnLBevan 14y ago
Sounds like an opening for an App. Gabriel's put a lot of effort into creating his flashcards, but they'd be the same for everyone - so you could allow the community to generate the cards, and the part of the community for whom this is their native language could rate these cards, the best bubbling to preference. The use of existing sites (Google Translate / Lang-8) to get/validate translations is good, but this could be baked into the same system as the flashcards, using that system's community, or having an API to connect that system with the external sites so that it's just one system from the user's perspective. In terms of reading books / watching tv / etc, again a catalogue of links to e-books / youtube clips / etc., along with ratings of difficulty could be maintained by the community and presented through the app. Build this on top of facebook / google plus / etc and tools such as hangouts are also available to help users from different countries / of different native languages talk to one another, taking it in turns of 30 min sessions in one another's languages.
nathell 14y ago
Can anybody share his/her self-made Anki DBs or recommend some good-quality ones? This looks to be of tremendous utility to other language learners, myself included (I'm mostly interested in English, French and German).
- AndyNemmity 14y ago
  I agree, I would really love an Anki DB on German.
pothibo 14y ago
I'm always irritated when people talk about how good they are in [xyz] language. Here in Québec City, I hear all the time how this person is fluent in english and everything. I spent 1 year in New Zealand when I was 17, I learned the language the hard way, when I got back, I was fluent, not bilingual but fluent. Now, 10 years later, I'm no where as good as I used to be, still I find people who tell me they are fluent in english and how they can express themselves nearly perfectly in english. If I have the luck to hear them speak once, I usually figure out right away how their english is (poor). On the other hand I have a friend that is perfectly bilingual from birth. He never claimed he was so and I knew about it after I knew him for a year... This is a personal story, I agree, but it does show a trend. People who claims that "speak", "are fluent", etc. are usually to be taken with a grain of salt. There's no magic in this world, and language is hard. There's no such thing as a free lunch
mschnell 14y ago
Almost everything ever asked about language learning can be found in the forums of 'How to learn any language' [1]. But careful, you can get hooked pretty fast. [1] http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html

258 points by cwan 14y ago

alljapaneseallthetime.com basically recommends same techniques: listening first, then verbal. He even goes to the extreme of listening to the foreign language 24/7, even in your sleep. Have kanji (or hanzi, or arabic) posters displayed in your bathroom. Turn the radio on when you're in the shower. Listen to podcasts when you're at work and subway. Keep those podcasts on while you're sleeping so you hear it first thing when you wake up. Immerse yourself completely, and it'll almost be the same as listening in that foreign country.

5vforest 14y ago

This is great -- although IMO not a replacement for programs like Rosetta Stone, as this method requires significantly more dedication.

binarycrusader 14y ago
I often see Rosetta Stone advertised and mentioned, and I even briefly toyed with a demo version in the past, but it didn't click for me. Can anyone provide their own success story for Rosetta or a competing alternative?
- SpiderX 14y ago
  Rosetta Stone worked great for me. I learned Russian in about 6 months, my wife says my pronunciation is perfect. Well, she wasn't my wife when I met her, and she didn't speak any english, so it was motivation enough for me to learn to speak Russian. It helps that I have someone to practice with. I'd say if you are going to be doing Rosetta Stone, it helps if you do it every day without fail for a minimum of 30 minutes a day. When I was studying, I did 30 minutes twice a day. Any periods longer than 30 minutes, and I found that my brain didn't retain as much. But, if I took that hour and split it into two sessions about 3 hours apart, that did the trick. It also helps to study right before you go to bed. Now it's not very difficult for me to speak Russian. I don't think of the english first and then translate it - I just think of the russian words and how to say what I want. Sometimes I don't know the word, and I have to describe what I want to say. Anyway, I am at a point now that I am learning new words every day just by speaking.
- showerst 14y ago
  Rosetta has improved quite a bit over the last few versions. I tried a copy a few years back and wasn't too impressed, then saw it again last year and they actually had working voice recognition that judged your pronunciation! They also have an iPad version out now which seems like a great fit. The one big thing I've noticed is that they're a bit random on what they teach you. I remember the Arabic 1 program taking quite a few lessons before teaching 'bathroom', for example.
- sswezey 14y ago
  Competing alternative - do what this guy is doing Rosetta Stone isn't supported by most linguists who study foreign language acquisition. It is also ridiculously overpriced and never explicitly teaches even basic grammar, something which FSI points out helps almost 100% of learners.
- mdaniel 14y ago
  I bought all 5 levels of Rosetta French version 3, and I lambast it at every opportunity. There is one positive item, one huge negative and one poor implementation point. The positive is that I think the mechanism, or put another way the Rosetta Stone platform, is mostly good. The combination of visual and aural, with a relatively simple screen-is-one-concept approach, is good. The negative for me was the actual content itself. I learned about ladders, and horses and crazy things that not once have I encountered here in Paris. It would have been helpful to learn food items, grocery store items, things folks (even tourists) would likely find useful. I hesitate to mention this because it might not have been a Rosetta Stone objective, nor might it fit into their framework/platform. But, there were no verb tense lessons. Even just rote learning of "je voudrais ..." [I would like ...] would get you out of 80% of the conversational jams when trying to get a sandwich, or similar. The poor implementation point is that I did not experience any good luck using their voice recognition engine. Perhaps it is because I really have horrible French pronunciation. However, isn't that the very situation Rosetta is trying to correct? I found no way to discover why it was upset with my pronunciation. It was just a very frustration experience.
  - rms25 14y ago
    Pimsleur is all about pronunciation, you should try it.
    - mdaniel 14y ago
      I thought that Pimsleur was basically a language podcast: i.e. unidirectional content. _Hearing_ someone speak a native language is not the same as having ones pronunciation evaluated, which is also separate from learning proper pronunciation. But yes, after hearing all of the raving reviews in this thread, maybe I should give it a closer look.
      - dpark 14y ago
        The first lesson is free in most (all?) languages, so you can give it a try if you want. You just have to give them an email address. After the reviews in this thread, I decided to give it a try, and it seems like a nice product. I'm planning to buy the first level (Italian), and I'm now just trying to decide between the audio-only and the "Unlimited" that they've introduced recently, which throws in flash cards and some reading material. It is "one way", but if you're able to dedicate time to it, the "they pronounce", "you pronounce" will probably work well. If you're halfway listening in the car, then it probably won't work.

kenrikm 14y ago

English/Spanish here. My wife is Cuban and did not speak much English when I meet her so it was a Huge motivating factor. ;) Italian and Portuguese will be next for me as once you know Spanish you automatically know big chunks of other Latin based languages.

graeme 14y ago

Another great resource is Pimsleur. I've used their courses to learn Italian and German. It's a half hour of audio each day. The key is that you speak out loud. You can do it while cooking or driving, or any other activity that is routine and non-verbal. They teach you to pronounce phrases very well, and you learn the basic structure of the language. Once you can say "I would like a glass of wine", you can easily learn to say "I would like X". When I got to Italy, people thought I had been living there for a year. There are only two things you MUST do: 1. Do a lesson every day. 2. Speak out loud, in a normal conversational tone. The program is teaching you to have conversations. I love these courses so much that I'm compelled to gush about them whenever language learning is mentioned. They won't make you a native speaker, but you'll quickly reach a level where you can advance rapidly.

nik_0_0 14y ago
I'm only a few lessons into Pimsleur but it is quite interesting. I understand the concept of speaking out loud, but I hope normal conversational tone is not required! I do these on the bus, which means I can mouth the words and speak in a quiet voice, but talking makes me look like a crazy person!
- keiferski 14y ago
  Just get a pair of iPhone earbuds (with a microphone). That way you can pretend to be on the phone.
  - pavel_lishin 14y ago
    Then, instead of a crazy person, you look like an asshole.
    - polymatter 14y ago
      Why do you care what other people think? Seriously, just whisper and accept the stares. That's what I do. People lose interest in you after a while anyway.

mtjl79 14y ago

As an American who speaks multiple languages, the thing for me was learning the first. When you learn another language you get a true understand of your own language that other people don't understand who are not bilingual. After you learn a second language, others get much much easier and the learning curve is much shorter.

brucejaywallace 14y ago
I also noticed this....it also gets easier depending on the language.... I'm learning Spanish right now, and for example, Portuguese and Italian can at times be very similar
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  I learned a fair bit of Spanish in high school, already knowing English and Russian. A lot of the language constructs were similar to Russian, so they just clicked easily in my mind. Lost most of it by now, of course. I can call a guy an asshole, and I can buy him a beer, but the bit in the middle where I apologize - that, I can't do :P

LyleK 14y ago

Great tips! Another fascinating (Creative Commons-licensed!) framework I have heard about recently is Language Hunters. http://www.languagehunters.org http://www.languagehunters.org. Their methods involve playing games with native speakers, in person or via Skype. They claim someone can reach fluency in a few months.

why-el 14y ago

I speak three languages fluently (Arabic, French, and English), and I have the same advice for anybody who wants to learn a new language: - Watch their news media. For instance, if you are learning Arabic, then watch Arabic media. It might be tough at first, but just go at it. Be a baby. Babies bombard their minds with input and eventually patterns form. - Pick a TV show you saw and watch the whole thing again using language-you-want-to-learn subtitles. This can be fun, and well things will be mentioned so often they will stick. This is extremely effective, and my English vocabulary improved dramatically this way. I prefer this to carrying cards and trying to memorize them. Its unnatural. - Go to a country that speaks it.

oops 14y ago
Comprehension exercises using foreign music videos and magazines can be good too, for the less formal stuff.
meepmorp 14y ago
Movies, too. When I was learning Russian in college, we'd be assigned a 5-10 ten minute segment of a movie and have to transcribe it for homework. It took forever at first, but it really helped my listening comprehension improve quickly.
- why-el 14y ago
  Yes, movies too. I just liked TV Show more because they last longer and they provide a lasting context.
ashconnor 14y ago
Can you recommend a good Arabic TV show?
- why-el 14y ago
  Oh I don't know. I am actually a native Arabic speaker so never needed TV shows for that purpose. And there is one issue you will face if you want to learn Arabic watching Arabic TV Shows: Any show you pick will be in some colloquial form of Arabic and not Classic Arabic. The most popular ones across the Middle East now are in Turkish dubbed in Lebanese Arabic (Yeah :p), and seconds are Egyptian TV shows, so you will have to choose. Pretty much any country makes TV Shows in its own version of Arabic, except in Syria where they used to make historical TV Shows in Classical Arabic. What I suggest is to watch news outlets like Aljazeera, which you can watch online for free [1]. Don't pay attention to the existing perception of Al Jazeera; they are very professional. And, relevant to our discussion, their Arabic is the best around. If in doubt, get a feeling of their editorial policies watching Al Jazeera English, then proceed to learn Arabic. Good Luck [1] http://www.aljazeera.net/livestreaming/pages http://www.aljazeera.net/livestreaming/pages

huherto 14y ago

Learning a second language allows you to appreciate the commitment that it requires. People who has never gone thru the process, don't appreciate it and they think it is a matter of studying six months one hour a day. I had a supervisor who said that he was going to learn Spanish (at 55) so we can tell him stuff that we didn't know how to say in English. I have been learning English for 23 years since I was 21. I felt this was insulting. Somehow he thought he could do it; may be he felt he was smarter than us because his English was fluent. Of course he was never able to say anything in Spanish.

acqq 14y ago

I just don't believe his claim: "C1 fluency in French in about 5 months" if he started from 0 unless he didn't do anything but learning the language in the target country. C1 is a damn high fluency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Re... "Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer texts, and recognise implicit meaning. Can express him/herself fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions. Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes. Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organisational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices." I'm a long-time foreigner in a German-speaking country, learning German after already speaking two more languages apart from my mother tongue, not knowing German before I came here, so I know how many nuances a living language has. Had he say A2, or B1 if he's a language talent, I'd believe him, C1, I can't imagine. I can only guess he didn't actually try to pass some formal verification tests, or he didn't start from 0, there simply must be something he avoided to say. Or he simply lies to himself (and us) that it's actually C1 what he reached in five months.

tagawa 14y ago
I think we should cut the guy some slack, here. He's laid out a structured plan for anyone to freely follow if they wish. Even if they don't follow it step-by-step, there are still some great tips to improve language-learning efficiency. Personally, this looks much more effective than the textbook I'm currently using so I'll give it a try. We have no idea whether his timeframe claims are true or not (in which case, how can we criticize?) but any outcome of following his advice is going to be positive.
- jardiamj 14y ago
  I speak three languages pretty well, two of them are of Latin origin (Spanish and Portuguese), and Spanish being my native language. I got really fluent in Portuguese in about 6 months, but those who know how close Spanish and Portuguese are, will know that that's not a hard task. But to get fluent in English it took me some years, living in the U.S. I also know enough to understand Polish, but speaking it is pretty hard for me. With that said, I can say with a lot of confidence that this guy is most likely to be lying.

pavel_lishin 14y ago

Anki is definitely not free on mobile devices.

socksy 14y ago
Whilst the iPhone one isn't free, the Android version is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDMsImNvbS5pY2hpMi5hbmtpIl0 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki...
- klez 14y ago
  Also free as in freedom (GPL)
teamonkey 14y ago
Anki lets you sync your flash cards to their free web service which works well under mobile safari.

alasano 14y ago

I was forced to leave my home country at the age of 3 because of war and then after 6 years in Germany we were given no choice but to leave the country since the refugees were costing the German government too much money and various other reasons. There's plenty of time to make a new life in 6 years only to be forced to throw it all away. We were given a choice between Australia, the US and Canada. We ended up in Quebec city where I've been for almost 14 years now (since September 98'). Even though the journey was hard for the 4 of us, harder for my parents than for me and my sister, I regret nothing. I'm fluent in 4 languages and functional in 2 others with a brain wired for learning to speak. Upon arrival at 9 years old I was the best in French after only 1 year, in a school filled mostly with people raised on the language. Plus I was picking up English at an amazing rate thanks to the Simpsons playing 6x more often than in Germany. Add subtitles and the fact that I knew all the episodes anyways and you get an abnormal learning rate. What I'm trying to say is, bullshit as to C1 fluency, I was under ideal conditions to get there (and C2) in a little less than a year with a brain that acts like a sponge at that age. His method may get him towards his objectives faster but I think he may overestimate his abilities.

mshafrir 14y ago

If you need help deciding which language to learn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_...

WildUtah 14y ago
That list is misleading. 1. Mandarin Lots of people, but spoken in only two countries (China and Singapore) and essentially nowhere else. 2. Spanish With only half the number of speakers of Mandarin, Spanish is the second most widely spoken language in the world. The people of over twenty countries on three continents prefer it. 3. English Only third in speakers, but the most widely spoken language, number one in both art and commerce. 4. Hindi Spoken in only two countries. 5. Arabic The world's third most widely used language, but usually spoken in places where you just can't use it to pick up girls. (Unless you are a girl yourself)
- vellum 14y ago
  If you're going to use Arabic to pick up women in conservative Middle Eastern countries, you need to: 1.) buy a phone with bluetooth [1], 2.) learn the Arabic chat alphabet [2]. Links: 1: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916890/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/saudi-arabia-high-tech-way-flirt/#.T5CGYDJYuU4 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8916890/ns/world_news-mideast_n_... 2:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet
- swang 14y ago
  You forgot Taiwan/ROC under Mandarin. Also there are a lot of cities in the US (or at least in California) where you can get by just speaking Mandarin/Cantonese. Also, how is that list misleading? The title is, "List of languages by number of native speakers" and not, "List of languages by some specific importance"
  - WildUtah 14y ago
    1. There is only one China. The pretenders in Beijing will be overthrown soon enough. 2. The list is misleading if used, as suggested, to prioritize languages to learn. It seems accurate enough as far as sheer numbers go. 3. California should just be marked as an exception to every list of facts. (The only country where you can comfortably live you life speaking only Vietnamese, except California; the first twenty digits of pi, except in California; &c)

sparknlaunch12 14y ago

Immersion is most powerful. ie living in the country, forcing you to live, eat, breath the language. However as described, a mixture of techniques is needed. Writing, reading, talking, listening. Plus practice, practice, practice. There are a few examples of people learning languages quickly... Like get fluent in 3 months. Once you understand the mechanics it is easier. Also some languages are easier than others. Germanic languages 'should' be easier for English speakers.

countersixte 14y ago

http://www.memrise.com http://www.memrise.com is another spaced repetition alternative to Anki. You'd need another tool to practice your grammar, but for vocab alone it works great.

Scaevolus 14y ago
Memorizing vocab in that way is less efficient than SRSing whole sentences, where you get semantics, contexts, and grammar at the same time.

surferoso 14y ago

downvote me please, but why is this on HN? I am currently learning Swedish just because we moved here for work, but English is the language we ALL speak at work, no matter where we come from. most HNers would need to learn a language if they get a job overseas for daily survival outside of work, @ work I bet 100% will be speaking English.

mdaniel 14y ago
My guess is because it falls under the topic of "brain hacking". Plus, I hear your point about pragmatics, but I am also appreciative of the exercise of learning the language as part of expanding ones horizons. "Walk a mile in his shoes" kind of deal, which only gets lip service unless one has actually needed to switch mental, cultural and linguistic contexts. I also honestly think that more Americans are not bilingual (or perhaps even interested in such a thing) because of the lack of opportunity to use that skill.
throwawaytruth 14y ago
Anything that falls within topic as long as the author frames to match the guidelines ("anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"). Don't believe me? Try looking back at some of the /best lists in archive.org for politics, crime, or sports. They are there and it's the high rep Hners posting them. This is all about framing it right as long as you are seen in a favorable condition for framing the item. So yeah, that's how it is. I am sure to expect a counter stating why this is on-topic, or how this one topic is rare etc etc. Framing. Frame shit well, anything looks like gold. ---- The backstory? HN tells you to read http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html and http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html but not even the regulars do it. No one follows the rules, because the rules are the regulars and hive mind make the rules. They make this their land to stomp on all and armchair speak. And that's the truth. I can pull references all day. If ever tried swearing here? Or giving a point against the masses? Downvoted right? Blame the hive mind and their inability to think on their own. Now check a regular high rep HNer. He swears, he goes against the masses tells them "What are you all thinking? I am ashamed of these comments here" A bazillion votes right? Same content, different framing. Before this post ends up as a dead link from users with too much emotion overflowed from the workplace, remember if you want to do well in this community, here are some steps to follow. I assure you these work. I've experimented with them and have studied high rep members for months * Circle jerk with reference, your point must inflate the previous point if not disagree with reference. * Frame your shit. Follow the masters and their styling, they can make cooking a pasta HN worthy. It's amazing actually they really do have that bullshit making skill * Bring in completely tangential points and references to counter anything written. The aim of the game is to disagree with just the right level of snark * Never ask why HN is the way it is, this will only upset the hivemind, they don't like their emotions swayed. * Attack YC companies, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, the community gets a kick out of this, they love seeing them fail and pointing how crappy they but never when those companies are busting their chops making something successful * If you are really really really angry about something someone wrote, use a throwaway account this is key. HN regulars do this, all the time. * Never interact with an HNer out of HN, not on twitter not on forums not on anywhere. The pseudonymity high they get off of being here makes them who they are. Don't take that away from them. * Never comment on the original article (Cannot let the author know all the snark and non constructive criticism you leave them can you?) * If you find a cool product on the internet that is not free, find a way to clone it in a weekend and put in on Github on rails and say "Tell HN: This is my piss poor clone done over the weekend give me karma now" pg once/twice/three times?/I lost count/ tried to fix this community but it's not fixable when the top community members fail to see they are full of themselves and imparting that notion to newcomers that this is how the conversation and behaviour must be. You may ask, why am I still here? Well you see, after you get past the circle jerk inflated ego mindset, there is actually treasure in here. And that sucks. Love/hate relationship I tell you. Did I once say frame your shit? If you haven't already, would you mind reading about HN's approach to comments?

atroche 14y ago

I've been having an awesome time learning Spanish using http://duolingo.com http://duolingo.com for the past few weeks.

Jun8 14y ago

I looked at the estimates for learning difficulty for English speakers (http://voxy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/110329-VOXY-HARDLANGUAGES-FINAL-WIDE.png http://voxy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/110329-VOXY-...) and saw that they mix together the language difficulty with the difficulty of the writing system. For example, Japanese (labeled hard) and Turkish (labeled medium) are similar (relatively speaking, looking from a English speaker's vantage, also add Korean to this group). In the explanation for why Japanese is so difficulty they mention the three different writing systems, etc., which is true (some consider the convoluted Japanese writing system to be the most complex in the world, on par with Maya hieroglyphs). But what if you want to learn just spoken Japanase? Similarly, what if you wanted to learn Turkish in the 1910s when it was still using the (modified) Arabic alphabet? As for the "thousands of characters" scare for Chinese, I've read estimates that for daily communication you can make do with less than a thousand characters.

wisty 14y ago
Good luck learning "spoken" anything without any decent texts to read. You could listen to the radio / watch movies, but you'll find the dialogue is way too fast and not very coherent (dialogue isn't structured very nicely, it's more free form, so you can't follow it as easily). You won't catch many words. If you have a tutor, they might be able to gradually build you up, but you won't have the hours with them. Reading at your own pace is a better way to build your vocabulary and grammar. You're right about the "thousands of characters" thing - a lot of Chinese writing is pretty simple (in terms of character use - simple characters are usually combined to form longer words, the first thousand goes a looong way), as long as you stay clear of classical Chinese literature (at which point, even some Chinese give up).
w1ntermute 14y ago
> As for the "thousands of characters" scare for Chinese, I've read estimates that for daily communication you can make do with less than a thousand characters. It's not that hard. After years of frustration at being essentially illiterate in Japanese while having a decent level of spoken fluency, I've finally buckled down and started learning the kanji using Remembering the Kanji in combination with Anki. It really is possible to learn 20 kanji a day if you dedicate about 45 minutes of time. There's a similar book called Remembering the Hanzi (both Traditional and Simplified versions are available) that you can use to much the same effect. At 20 per day, you can learn the 5000 hanzi that are said to cover just about everything you might come across in day-to-day life in less than a year.

vertis 14y ago

Awesome story. I had to laugh at the part where you linked the language difficulties. I had a somewhat abortive attempt to learn Chinese last year (we have an office over there). I don't think I've ever come up against something quite so hard as trying to get the tones right in Chinese.

DanBC 14y ago

This is what happens when I try to learn a language by watching movies. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cAnFbEXY0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cAnFbEXY0&feature=relat...) This is also pretty much what happens to me when I'm in the US. I think I'm talking real words, but people don't understand me.

virtualeyes 14y ago
LMAO! Thank you. It's the same for me when I'm in England, the locals just don't understand me. "you know what I mean, right?", I say, and they respond with, "oh, royt, e means royt!" WTF is royt, can't these people articulate themselves properly? k-rist they invented the language and we had to improve it, god bless America, rush limpbag and everything that makes the homeland free of the brave. "ave a pint yank, ave a pint"

zerostar07 14y ago

Once i used a chrome extension to replace web banners with flashcards. Now i 'm bombarded with words. http://projectilo.com/113 http://projectilo.com/113

awayand 14y ago

dont believe everything you read

inspiredworlds 14y ago

Its great to see this kind of discussion on Hacker News and how people are hacking their way to learning a language. I think its kinda difficult to obtain that level of fluency without living in the country, being immersed, and communicating with other people. There are certainly tools and ways that can aid you to learn - I've done similar things to learn a language such as learning from movies/tv shows/CD's/books/mobile apps/sitting near people on the train and listening to their conversation. I've actually made it my mission to make languages fun and easy to learn, and started a company called Native Tongue. If you are interested in learning a language check out our vocabulary mobile apps for Spanish and Mandarin. They're called Spanish Smash and Mandarin Madness. http://nativetongue.com/ http://nativetongue.com/

drucken 14y ago

This guy's method is a very solid approach to learning languages especially for Romance and Germanic languages, even if his claimed results (C1 in 5 months) are hard to believe for ordinary people. Two other resources which are inline with his approach are the Assimil series, which is highly regarded by non-academic linguists (and some practical academics), and the LingQ words-in-context language learning website.

sakopov 14y ago

My native language is Russian and I have never met a foreigner who mastered it even after years and years of practice. It is almost unheard of to find a foreigner who can speak and pronounce correctly. Usually it's one or the other. The majority of native Russians spend 12 years learning Russian grammar and still cannot spell right. I find it hard to believe that a non-native speaker could. On the other hand it took me 3 months to become fluent in English at 14 while attending a high school in the US. Another 6 months to lose my accent and by the end of the year i was thinking in English. Being immersed in the culture of native speakers is probably the best way to learn any language. However, overcoming the complexity of a language is sometimes very difficult/impossible.

everyguy 14y ago

I taught myself Japanese using basically this method and it works.

krollew 14y ago

It migh sound unbelievable, but why not? I'm learning Ukrainian and Russian for 3,5 months. I understand Ukrainian just like that and understand Russian quite well; written and spoken. I speak ukrainian quite good and start to speak russian (because I started with ukrainian and didn't write russian first). It was 3,5months of nearly no effort maybe couple hours a week. OK, I'm polish so slavic languages are nothing new to me, but many people learnt russian here with nearly no result. I think it's way of learning. I just started write and read ukrainian and russian bit later. If I learnt familar language so fast with no effort why not to learn european language in 5 months of some effort? It's possible since european languages are not completely different and I know english and understand german now. Well, maybe it won't be C1, but I can believe there are people with better language skills than me.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

kentosi 14y ago

If he claims that he's now fluent in French then he needs to back this up with a posting of his voice (or a youtube clip) of him speaking in it. Let that be the judge of how fluent he is.

theycallmemorty 14y ago
Couldn't that be easily faked? Anyone could memorize a speech in another language and make sure to get the accent/intonation down before recording. If he's an Opera singer he's already experienced in this.

JohnLBevan 14y ago

Sounds like an opening for an App. Gabriel's put a lot of effort into creating his flashcards, but they'd be the same for everyone - so you could allow the community to generate the cards, and the part of the community for whom this is their native language could rate these cards, the best bubbling to preference. The use of existing sites (Google Translate / Lang-8) to get/validate translations is good, but this could be baked into the same system as the flashcards, using that system's community, or having an API to connect that system with the external sites so that it's just one system from the user's perspective. In terms of reading books / watching tv / etc, again a catalogue of links to e-books / youtube clips / etc., along with ratings of difficulty could be maintained by the community and presented through the app. Build this on top of facebook / google plus / etc and tools such as hangouts are also available to help users from different countries / of different native languages talk to one another, taking it in turns of 30 min sessions in one another's languages.

nathell 14y ago

Can anybody share his/her self-made Anki DBs or recommend some good-quality ones? This looks to be of tremendous utility to other language learners, myself included (I'm mostly interested in English, French and German).

AndyNemmity 14y ago
I agree, I would really love an Anki DB on German.

pothibo 14y ago

I'm always irritated when people talk about how good they are in [xyz] language. Here in Québec City, I hear all the time how this person is fluent in english and everything. I spent 1 year in New Zealand when I was 17, I learned the language the hard way, when I got back, I was fluent, not bilingual but fluent. Now, 10 years later, I'm no where as good as I used to be, still I find people who tell me they are fluent in english and how they can express themselves nearly perfectly in english. If I have the luck to hear them speak once, I usually figure out right away how their english is (poor). On the other hand I have a friend that is perfectly bilingual from birth. He never claimed he was so and I knew about it after I knew him for a year... This is a personal story, I agree, but it does show a trend. People who claims that "speak", "are fluent", etc. are usually to be taken with a grain of salt. There's no magic in this world, and language is hard. There's no such thing as a free lunch

mschnell 14y ago

Almost everything ever asked about language learning can be found in the forums of 'How to learn any language' [1]. But careful, you can get hooked pretty fast. [1] http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html