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> If you didn't have any training in IntelliJ People get trained to use an IDE? I gotta say, I've been using IDEA since 2015, and a language-specific IntelliJ

> If you didn't have any training in IntelliJ People get trained to use an IDE? I gotta say, I've been using IDEA since 2015, and a language-specific IntelliJ based IDE since 2013, and in 10 years of use it's never occurred to me that someone might need training to use it.

yread 3y ago
It's a complex tool with lots of hard to discover features. Training can be more efficient than watching youtubers use it since you can ask questions
- stephenr 3y ago
  > more efficient than watching youtubers That isn't really saying much. "Watching YouTubers" doesn't really seem like a way to learn how to do something, it seems like a way to waste some time and pretend you're one of the cool kids. I can't be the only person who remembers when people learnt how to use a program by using it?
  - yread 3y ago
    "Using it" is fine for a simple tool. But IDE is a complex beast. You can easily fall into a local optimum without discovering and using the best features. Think using arrow keys to navigate in vim. It works, gets the job done but is far from optimal. You could read the manual but I'm sure you agree that training is a lot more efficient use of your time
fragmede 3y ago
I mean you can poke around and read the manual/watch YouTube videos and discover things, or you could just have an expert in the thing interactively teach you how to use the program and its features. It's not about needing training, it's about optimizing time spent learning an advanced tool and all its features.
samsquire 3y ago
Did you train yourself? On my first day of work I was given access to SVN and then had to piece together how to run the project. So I was bouncing around IntellIJ and all the various tools to make up a modern development environment. In week-0 of an iteration you might just be spending time to get a development environment working. If you wanted to get something working, did you ask your colleague "how to get company IntelliJ linting configuration to work" or how to set up all the IntelliJ modules or facets. Someone coming in with no experience has to learn: * git * command line * linux * containers * gradle (build runner) * makefiles * java jar files, * pom.xml * javascript bundlers, React/Angular, selenium, frontend testing, storybook * database migrations * IntellIJ' integrations/representations of the above
- stephenr 3y ago
  I don't use IDEA for Java work, I use it because it's the only IntelliJ platform app that supports "all" languages (or at least all the languages I care about), but sure let's go with your examples above. If you're hiring someone to do java work, who has no experience of jar files, or java build tools, them not being able to use IDEA is the least of your concern. This is like saying "on the first day of work as a carpenter, we send all new hires on an intensive nail-gun training course, because they probably don't know how to use a circular saw, or even what the pointy end of a nail is for" I don't know what schools teach these days, but all the classes I had (one of which, coincidentally enough was java) specifically made us not use an IDE - we had to use a text editor for all practical work. Once you know what you actually need/want to do, using a different tool to achieve it is generally not a complex task. If someone knows how to use a screw driver, they don't need comprehensive training to then use an electric drill/driver to put a screw in. If they don't know how to use a screw driver, giving them a drill/driver to learn, is a fucking terrible idea.

yread 3y ago

It's a complex tool with lots of hard to discover features. Training can be more efficient than watching youtubers use it since you can ask questions

stephenr 3y ago
> more efficient than watching youtubers That isn't really saying much. "Watching YouTubers" doesn't really seem like a way to learn how to do something, it seems like a way to waste some time and pretend you're one of the cool kids. I can't be the only person who remembers when people learnt how to use a program by using it?
- yread 3y ago
  "Using it" is fine for a simple tool. But IDE is a complex beast. You can easily fall into a local optimum without discovering and using the best features. Think using arrow keys to navigate in vim. It works, gets the job done but is far from optimal. You could read the manual but I'm sure you agree that training is a lot more efficient use of your time

fragmede 3y ago

I mean you can poke around and read the manual/watch YouTube videos and discover things, or you could just have an expert in the thing interactively teach you how to use the program and its features. It's not about needing training, it's about optimizing time spent learning an advanced tool and all its features.

samsquire 3y ago

Did you train yourself? On my first day of work I was given access to SVN and then had to piece together how to run the project. So I was bouncing around IntellIJ and all the various tools to make up a modern development environment. In week-0 of an iteration you might just be spending time to get a development environment working. If you wanted to get something working, did you ask your colleague "how to get company IntelliJ linting configuration to work" or how to set up all the IntelliJ modules or facets. Someone coming in with no experience has to learn: * git * command line * linux * containers * gradle (build runner) * makefiles * java jar files, * pom.xml * javascript bundlers, React/Angular, selenium, frontend testing, storybook * database migrations * IntellIJ' integrations/representations of the above

stephenr 3y ago
I don't use IDEA for Java work, I use it because it's the only IntelliJ platform app that supports "all" languages (or at least all the languages I care about), but sure let's go with your examples above. If you're hiring someone to do java work, who has no experience of jar files, or java build tools, them not being able to use IDEA is the least of your concern. This is like saying "on the first day of work as a carpenter, we send all new hires on an intensive nail-gun training course, because they probably don't know how to use a circular saw, or even what the pointy end of a nail is for" I don't know what schools teach these days, but all the classes I had (one of which, coincidentally enough was java) specifically made us not use an IDE - we had to use a text editor for all practical work. Once you know what you actually need/want to do, using a different tool to achieve it is generally not a complex task. If someone knows how to use a screw driver, they don't need comprehensive training to then use an electric drill/driver to put a screw in. If they don't know how to use a screw driver, giving them a drill/driver to learn, is a fucking terrible idea.