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It’d be much more impactful if critical OS configuration was done either via text files (ala *nix) or cli. Either would need to be feature complete and discover

by ianai 3y ago

It’d be much more impactful if critical OS configuration was done either via text files (ala *nix) or cli. Either would need to be feature complete and discoverable/documented very well.

pjmlp 3y ago
Everything is available via CLI for ages, on the Windows NT linage. VBScript, JScript and nowadays Poweshell.
- hju22_-3 3y ago
  Try setting Group Policy objects through CLI without some serious workarounds and without using that one Microsoft local GPO binary that I don't remember the name of but isn't supported.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/grouppolicy/?view=windowsserver2022-ps https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/grouppol...
    - hju22_-3 3y ago
      Show me how to set an arbitrary, already existing, GPO's value without having to manually toggle it first, back that up, and use that backup to import the change.
- yonatan8070 3y ago
  I've needed to automate the addition of a cellular APN on Windows, as far as I know it's not possible to do without the Windows settings app
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/technologies/netsh/netsh-mbn https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/...
delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> a lá *nix Windows is not UNIX, we ought to keep it that way. Its object-oriented model is in many ways better than UNIX's everything-is-text-or-a-bunch-of-bytes model. > if critical OS configuration was done either via text files Ah, please, no. On Linux today we have a terrible jumble of configuration files in .conf, .ini, .yaml, .toml, even .json and .xml... IMO the Windows Registry was a fantastic way to store settings, and Microsoft should return its usage. It's not like Linux distro don't have something similar in systemd...
- pxc 3y ago
  > It's not like Linux distro don't have something similar in systemd... You mean dconf? What part of systemd is like the registry?
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
Forgive me if I'm speaking completely in erro, but doesn't Powershell allow the latter, by exposing every Windows API known to man?
- pxc 3y ago
  Some settings changes happen are effected via undocumented registry changes that you have to make directly, and can be a pain to track down. Sometimes you can do something via PowerShell, but only by using PowerShell to directly call some 'raw' .NET API. Sometimes there's a native CLI utility that'll do what you want, but it's one of the DOS-like, pre-PowerShell commands, and the PowerShell equivalent is missing or unsuitable. Even when a native PowerShell API exists, it can be difficult to find the documentation for it because Windows culture is to document GUI solutions first (and often GUI solutions only). Try as one might, Windows remains a platform inherently hostile to automation. Doing automation and/or configuration management on Windows sucks.
- Meph504 3y ago
  powershell doesn't expose everything by default, there are insane numbers of modules that are community created though.
  - yourusername 3y ago
    What can't you access through a combination of wmi and pinvoke?
    - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
      I used to use wmi in my software to manage printer ports. In the end I had to remove it because wmi was broken on a significant number of my customers machines.
    - jborean93 3y ago
      You can, it’s just that going the PInvoke route can be quite complicated. It can certainly be done but typically finding a good community module that has already done so makes things a lot easier.
eviks 3y ago
You can already do the cli way via PowerShell, what would be more impactful if the GUI way of configuring the OS were good
satiric 3y ago
What do you mean by "critical"? Do you mean stuff that everyone will have to do, like changing mouse speed? Installing programs? The more obscure stuff, like Event Viewer? The really obscure changes that currently need registry hacks (the "I know my setup is weird but it works for me" stuff)? Different demographics will probably need different solutions. The important thing isn't what solutions they come up with, it's that they choose a system and stick with it. To me it's understandable that Event Viewer isn't part of the main Settings app (plenty of IT folks would be upset if anything about Event Viewer changed). But Mouse Acceleration options really should be.

by ianai 3y ago

It’d be much more impactful if critical OS configuration was done either via text files (ala *nix) or cli. Either would need to be feature complete and discoverable/documented very well.

pjmlp 3y ago

Everything is available via CLI for ages, on the Windows NT linage. VBScript, JScript and nowadays Poweshell.

hju22_-3 3y ago
Try setting Group Policy objects through CLI without some serious workarounds and without using that one Microsoft local GPO binary that I don't remember the name of but isn't supported.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/grouppolicy/?view=windowsserver2022-ps https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/grouppol...
  - hju22_-3 3y ago
    Show me how to set an arbitrary, already existing, GPO's value without having to manually toggle it first, back that up, and use that backup to import the change.
yonatan8070 3y ago
I've needed to automate the addition of a cellular APN on Windows, as far as I know it's not possible to do without the Windows settings app
- pjmlp 3y ago
  https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/technologies/netsh/netsh-mbn https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/...

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago

> a lá *nix Windows is not UNIX, we ought to keep it that way. Its object-oriented model is in many ways better than UNIX's everything-is-text-or-a-bunch-of-bytes model. > if critical OS configuration was done either via text files Ah, please, no. On Linux today we have a terrible jumble of configuration files in .conf, .ini, .yaml, .toml, even .json and .xml... IMO the Windows Registry was a fantastic way to store settings, and Microsoft should return its usage. It's not like Linux distro don't have something similar in systemd...

pxc 3y ago
> It's not like Linux distro don't have something similar in systemd... You mean dconf? What part of systemd is like the registry?

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

Forgive me if I'm speaking completely in erro, but doesn't Powershell allow the latter, by exposing every Windows API known to man?

pxc 3y ago
Some settings changes happen are effected via undocumented registry changes that you have to make directly, and can be a pain to track down. Sometimes you can do something via PowerShell, but only by using PowerShell to directly call some 'raw' .NET API. Sometimes there's a native CLI utility that'll do what you want, but it's one of the DOS-like, pre-PowerShell commands, and the PowerShell equivalent is missing or unsuitable. Even when a native PowerShell API exists, it can be difficult to find the documentation for it because Windows culture is to document GUI solutions first (and often GUI solutions only). Try as one might, Windows remains a platform inherently hostile to automation. Doing automation and/or configuration management on Windows sucks.
Meph504 3y ago
powershell doesn't expose everything by default, there are insane numbers of modules that are community created though.
- yourusername 3y ago
  What can't you access through a combination of wmi and pinvoke?
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    I used to use wmi in my software to manage printer ports. In the end I had to remove it because wmi was broken on a significant number of my customers machines.
  - jborean93 3y ago
    You can, it’s just that going the PInvoke route can be quite complicated. It can certainly be done but typically finding a good community module that has already done so makes things a lot easier.

eviks 3y ago

You can already do the cli way via PowerShell, what would be more impactful if the GUI way of configuring the OS were good

satiric 3y ago

What do you mean by "critical"? Do you mean stuff that everyone will have to do, like changing mouse speed? Installing programs? The more obscure stuff, like Event Viewer? The really obscure changes that currently need registry hacks (the "I know my setup is weird but it works for me" stuff)? Different demographics will probably need different solutions. The important thing isn't what solutions they come up with, it's that they choose a system and stick with it. To me it's understandable that Event Viewer isn't part of the main Settings app (plenty of IT folks would be upset if anything about Event Viewer changed). But Mouse Acceleration options really should be.