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:) Here's what Fielding says: "When I say Hypertext, I mean the simultaneous presentation of information and controls such that the information becomes the af

:) Here's what Fielding says: "When I say Hypertext, I mean the simultaneous presentation of information and controls such that the information becomes the affordance through which the user obtains choices and selects actions" htmx "extends" HTML as hypermedia by generalizing the idea of hypermedia controls in it, which is laid out pretty clearly in chapter 3. You might say it's a bad generalization, or generalizing hypermedia controls in general is a bad idea, but it's pretty straight forward: - generalize the event that triggers the request - generalize the HTML element that can issue the request - generalize the type of HTTP request that can be made - generalize the way the response can be placed in the page I don't think it's reasonable to say that we pretend REST only applies to HTML when we present a completely different hypermedia, Hyperview, in our book as an example of a REST-ful system: https://hypermedia.systems/hyperview-a-mobile-hypermedia/ https://hypermedia.systems/hyperview-a-mobile-hypermedia/ It appears that you really don't like me at a personal level, which I understand: I don't like myself a lot of the time. However, i think if you stepped back from that fact, you'd see you are being a bit unreasonable here.

troupo 3y ago
> When I say Hypertext, I mean the simultaneous presentation of information Doesn't come from his dissertation, does it? Also, there's a reason hypertext and hypermedia are two different words. > htmx "extends" HTML as hypermedia by generalizing the idea of hypermedia controls in it, Indeed, you're creating your own custom DSL aka your own custom client to speak a custom protocol over the wire that only HTMX understands. This is no different than someone doing exactly the same, but requesting JSON, XML or binary streams from the server, as long as their client knows how to deal with them. > we present a completely different hypermedia, Hyperview, i Ah yes. This is "different hypermedia", that there's no client for, but "many developers ignore the hypermedia features of the browser, in favor of building their web applications entirely in JavaScript." Unlike you, of course. > It appears that you really don't like me at a personal level, Until this moment in time I had no idea who you were and what you were doing. You were just some random text on screen. If you are the author of HTMx, well, with this you just continue the same thing, again: acting as an overconfident teenager with a very superficial understanding of things, and taking everything as a personal affront.
- recursivedoubts 3y ago
  > Doesn't come from his dissertation, does it? No, it came from a talk he gave entitled "A little REST and Relaxation": https://www.slideshare.net/royfielding/a-little-rest-and-relaxation https://www.slideshare.net/royfielding/a-little-rest-and-rel... > This is no different than someone doing exactly the same, but requesting JSON, XML or binary streams from the server, as long as their client knows how to deal with them. I don't disagree w/ that, so long as there are hypermedia controls imposed on top of those formats (which are not natural hypermedia w/ native hypermedia controls) and are being consumed by a client that implements the uniform interface properly (https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-clients/ https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-clients/) > This is "different hypermedia", that there's no client for Hyperview includes a client, which is one of the reasons I think it will be a successful hypermedia, in contrast w/, for example, attempts to impose hypermedia controls on JSON but not providing a client to consume those controls. (See the above essay, where i discuss this) > acting as an overconfident teenager with a very superficial understanding of things, and taking everything as a personal affront. I try to be a humble man and i certainly have much to be humble about, and i appreciate the reminder that at times I fall into the sin of pridefulness. Pride goeth before the fall, and a haughty heart before destruction.

troupo 3y ago

> When I say Hypertext, I mean the simultaneous presentation of information Doesn't come from his dissertation, does it? Also, there's a reason hypertext and hypermedia are two different words. > htmx "extends" HTML as hypermedia by generalizing the idea of hypermedia controls in it, Indeed, you're creating your own custom DSL aka your own custom client to speak a custom protocol over the wire that only HTMX understands. This is no different than someone doing exactly the same, but requesting JSON, XML or binary streams from the server, as long as their client knows how to deal with them. > we present a completely different hypermedia, Hyperview, i Ah yes. This is "different hypermedia", that there's no client for, but "many developers ignore the hypermedia features of the browser, in favor of building their web applications entirely in JavaScript." Unlike you, of course. > It appears that you really don't like me at a personal level, Until this moment in time I had no idea who you were and what you were doing. You were just some random text on screen. If you are the author of HTMx, well, with this you just continue the same thing, again: acting as an overconfident teenager with a very superficial understanding of things, and taking everything as a personal affront.

recursivedoubts 3y ago
> Doesn't come from his dissertation, does it? No, it came from a talk he gave entitled "A little REST and Relaxation": https://www.slideshare.net/royfielding/a-little-rest-and-relaxation https://www.slideshare.net/royfielding/a-little-rest-and-rel... > This is no different than someone doing exactly the same, but requesting JSON, XML or binary streams from the server, as long as their client knows how to deal with them. I don't disagree w/ that, so long as there are hypermedia controls imposed on top of those formats (which are not natural hypermedia w/ native hypermedia controls) and are being consumed by a client that implements the uniform interface properly (https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-clients/ https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-clients/) > This is "different hypermedia", that there's no client for Hyperview includes a client, which is one of the reasons I think it will be a successful hypermedia, in contrast w/, for example, attempts to impose hypermedia controls on JSON but not providing a client to consume those controls. (See the above essay, where i discuss this) > acting as an overconfident teenager with a very superficial understanding of things, and taking everything as a personal affront. I try to be a humble man and i certainly have much to be humble about, and i appreciate the reminder that at times I fall into the sin of pridefulness. Pride goeth before the fall, and a haughty heart before destruction.