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> I really wish they would stop using the driver facing camera and wheel force to determine if the driver is attentive. Interesting, I didn't know they had a d

> I really wish they would stop using the driver facing camera and wheel force to determine if the driver is attentive. Interesting, I didn't know they had a driver facing camera like that - that makes my encounter with that woman make a bit more sense, if she is required to be eyes open, looking forward, hands on wheel for autopilot to work, there's nothing to stop her from maintaining that position but being lost in a totally separate daydream and having no recognition of what's going on around her, which is in line with what I observed. Frightening. As for the capacitance sensing, wouldn't that not work with gloves? In general I don't think there's really any way to mechanically determine if someone is "paying attention". So any system that relies on driver attention and disaster intervention for safe operation is destined to be unsafe, and in my opinion and observation much more unsafe than a purely human driver.

dheera 3y ago
> if she is required to be eyes open, looking forward, hands on wheel for autopilot to work Once FSD switches on, the behavior I have gathered is that if it thinks you're looking away from the road for too large a percentage of the time (you're allowed some percentage of time to look at the mirrors etc.) or if you don't apply force to the steering wheel for a certain period of time, it classifies you as not attentive and starts warning you with a flashing blue gradient on the screen and a small-font text at the bottom saying "Please pay attention to the road" or similar. The weird thing is, because my arm is too light for the force sensor to pick up, and the camera's judgement is easily obstructed by sun shade or by sunglasses, I have to pay attention to the screen to avoid missing the flashing blue gradient, and jerk the steering wheel as soon as I see the gradient. (Yeah, even if there are trucks on both sides, it requires you to jerk the wheel slightly to prove you're there or you get punished) If you don't see the flashing blue gradient for several seconds, it beeps for about 2 seconds, turns fiery red, and punishes you with an FSD strike (5 strikes and your software is downgraded to a more dangerous version for a week) and not allowed to use self-driving until the next time you exit and re-enter the car. Sometimes I'm often too distracted by the road to notice these stupid gradients on the screen and get a FSD strike. But there are really no better cars on the market that serve my medical needs. Almost all the alternative cars' lane keep products are programmed to crash, not drive, if the driver loses consciousness. So while I hate Tesla's driver attentiveness implementation, it's still the only brand with a lane keep implementation that's designed to actually keep the driver alive. > As for the capacitance sensing, wouldn't that not work with gloves? Capacitive sensing can easily work with gloves. It's not required to be pixel-accurate like a mobile phone, it just needs to sense whether or not there's a hand there and that can easily be done through gloves.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Other lane keep is programmed to crash? How so? Does it not just slow to a stop and put lights on?
  - dheera 3y ago
    Most other cars I have driven that have active lane keep, if they deem you to not be holding the steering wheel, they just give up and stop steering entirely, so the car just goes in a straight line and crashes. Yet others are programmed to auto-shut off at <40mph so even if the car slows on its own it will crash when it gets below 40mph if the driver is unconscious. Tesla will punish you by not letting you use autopilot until the next time you exit and re-enter the car, but before the punishment starts it will at least continue autopiloting and lane-keeping all the way to 0mph, and switch on the emergency flashers.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      Unconscious with foot on the accelerator is what I think you're describing... I didn't expect that. Would have guessed lane-keep would include old-school cruise control as well, that turns off when pushing the accelerator. So, as soon as it disengages would expect it to slowly roll to a stop, while staying in the lane. I'm glad I don't have any of these features, hearing now that they are so poorly designed.

dheera 3y ago

> if she is required to be eyes open, looking forward, hands on wheel for autopilot to work Once FSD switches on, the behavior I have gathered is that if it thinks you're looking away from the road for too large a percentage of the time (you're allowed some percentage of time to look at the mirrors etc.) or if you don't apply force to the steering wheel for a certain period of time, it classifies you as not attentive and starts warning you with a flashing blue gradient on the screen and a small-font text at the bottom saying "Please pay attention to the road" or similar. The weird thing is, because my arm is too light for the force sensor to pick up, and the camera's judgement is easily obstructed by sun shade or by sunglasses, I have to pay attention to the screen to avoid missing the flashing blue gradient, and jerk the steering wheel as soon as I see the gradient. (Yeah, even if there are trucks on both sides, it requires you to jerk the wheel slightly to prove you're there or you get punished) If you don't see the flashing blue gradient for several seconds, it beeps for about 2 seconds, turns fiery red, and punishes you with an FSD strike (5 strikes and your software is downgraded to a more dangerous version for a week) and not allowed to use self-driving until the next time you exit and re-enter the car. Sometimes I'm often too distracted by the road to notice these stupid gradients on the screen and get a FSD strike. But there are really no better cars on the market that serve my medical needs. Almost all the alternative cars' lane keep products are programmed to crash, not drive, if the driver loses consciousness. So while I hate Tesla's driver attentiveness implementation, it's still the only brand with a lane keep implementation that's designed to actually keep the driver alive. > As for the capacitance sensing, wouldn't that not work with gloves? Capacitive sensing can easily work with gloves. It's not required to be pixel-accurate like a mobile phone, it just needs to sense whether or not there's a hand there and that can easily be done through gloves.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
Other lane keep is programmed to crash? How so? Does it not just slow to a stop and put lights on?
- dheera 3y ago
  Most other cars I have driven that have active lane keep, if they deem you to not be holding the steering wheel, they just give up and stop steering entirely, so the car just goes in a straight line and crashes. Yet others are programmed to auto-shut off at <40mph so even if the car slows on its own it will crash when it gets below 40mph if the driver is unconscious. Tesla will punish you by not letting you use autopilot until the next time you exit and re-enter the car, but before the punishment starts it will at least continue autopiloting and lane-keeping all the way to 0mph, and switch on the emergency flashers.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Unconscious with foot on the accelerator is what I think you're describing... I didn't expect that. Would have guessed lane-keep would include old-school cruise control as well, that turns off when pushing the accelerator. So, as soon as it disengages would expect it to slowly roll to a stop, while staying in the lane. I'm glad I don't have any of these features, hearing now that they are so poorly designed.