5 ms·

Q2 owner here: I actually want to upgrade to Q3 since the Fresnel lenses on the Q2 are kind of crappy producing tonnes of god-rays, and the 3 step IPD adjustmen

Q2 owner here: I actually want to upgrade to Q3 since the Fresnel lenses on the Q2 are kind of crappy producing tonnes of god-rays, and the 3 step IPD adjustment is far too rudimentary and limited in range(it goes up to 68mm while my eyes are 71mm) because of which, to my eyes, it looks like ass in some scenes. Q3 lenses and flexible IPD should solve all those issues. Devil's advocate take: Unlike cheap handheld gaming consoles, when it comes to VR, cheap VR devices with large drawbacks might actually be poisoning the well , instead of helping VR uptake. Hear me out: People will naturally go for the cheapest option when making an impulse buy like this, play with it for a bit, be disappointed by the compromises made to achieve that low price point, return it or let it gather dust, and then give up on VR forever thinking it sucks. The Q3 while being more expensive and less of an impulse buy, might leave less people frustrated and willing to give up on VR and more likely to recommend and tell everyone how awesome VR is. Just a shower thought. I think also an important metric would be to look at the rate of returns for those devices as well. That should let us know how many customers were actually happy with their VR console. My biggest issue with the Q3 and why it probably sells much less, despite improving Q2's shortcomings, is it also includes a lot of unnecessary AR gimmicks that needlessly jack up the price and no VR gamer ever asked for. People want to try VR for full immersion escapism, not to look at their apartment/living room in AR with expensive goggles on. They can already do that on their iPhone/iPad. IMHO they should have just left the AR gimmicks out of the Q3 to keep the price lower and keep the focus on VR gaming. It would have sold much better, but it seems The Zuck really wants to keep pushing AR to people (probably for AR ads and AR shopping in the future).

kalleboo 3y ago
The Apple Vision Pro is coming out next year and it is all about AR and not at all about gaming. When the Vision Pro comes out and brings a new audience to VR, Facebook will just be a software update away from being the cheaper alternative.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >The Apple Vision Pro is coming out next year and it is all about AR and not at all about gaming. That's just Apple, they were never about gaming in the first place. Developers brought games to their platform but Apple themselves never bothered to promote or invest in gaming the same way Microsoft or Linux/Valve did. Although that seems to be recently changing with Apple as well.
verdverm 3y ago
I primarily bought my Q3 as a holdover to the Visor. I use the Immersed app and AR definitely is a great feature when using a virtual desktop setup, for drinking coffee and using a real keyboard. I secondarily bought it as a Q1 upgrade for entertainment. That being said, the AR features still don't hold a candle to the Hololens 2 experience. The hand and environment recognition are still behind, even after 3+ years, and passthrough will never compare to real view. There are tons of visual distortions in the Q3 passthrough to make it usable like the early videos people put out, but for desk work it's fine. Then main issue with Q3 for virtual screens is the uneven pixel density. Words are blurry if not at the center, where you would normally use your eyes to look IRL. This is not peripheral distance, but quick eye glance distance. My understanding is Visor is designing their displays and lenses so this is not an issue.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  I recognize there are legit use cases for AR beyond gimmicks, but for that you need GOOD AR, while the Q3 AR feels kind of janky, half baked and screams of cost cutting compromises. They tried to compromise to get a low priced AR headset to the masses, but in the end fucked it up since the headset is neither low priced enough to be an impulse buy for the masses, nor is the AR good enough to satisfy the tech enthusiasts with money. It ended up being the worst of both worlds, hence the low sales. Q2 really hit the sweet spot in terms of features to price.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    I wonder how much of the AR they can fix in software, but I definitely agree with your sentiment on Q3 AR, though not sure I would call it the worst of both worlds. One thing you can do is use the hand recognition in a VR experience instead of requiring controllers. Not having to pick up controllers to use a wrist glance menu is definitely a nice feature in an experience.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >I wonder how much of the AR they can fix in software They have a good track record for SW updates with great improvements, but I buy a device for what it offers now, not for hopes and dreams for the future. >One thing you can do is use the hand recognition in a VR experience instead of requiring controllers. Q2 also does that in VR since a SW update a while ago.
antiterra 3y ago
I have never seen people so excited for VR/AR as they have been by the in-device recording of AR views. Generally everyone is careful to clarify that the real experience is full of warping and distortion, but people are genuinely enjoying even that poor version of what is to come. VR gaming is maybe not the killer app that VR fans think it is, only Beat Saber has really come close. A lot of us genuinely tried to get into VR gaming (for my part I’ve owned: DK2, Rift, GearVR, Rift S, Quest, Quest 2) but decided 2D gaming is better in the current state of things.
- elev8d 3y ago
  VR gaming interest all depends on the person. I don't think there will be any one single killer app for VR just like there isn't any one singular killer app for a PC or Smartphone. It'll just take years for the one specific app that hooks each individual to be created. I have a few buddies that get online to play Population One with me daily. I have other friends that have no interest in it at all. What's a killer app for me, may not be for you. For me first person shooters are peak VR, but my girlfriend much prefers sports games like tennis, minigolf, and ping pong in VR. I've got an Index, Q3, and just gave my Q2 to a friend. The Q3 is significantly better than the Q2. I'd probably still use my Index as my primary headset, but I don't feel like buying new controllers. I feel like there is no lag with the Index, whereas it remains an issue with PCVR on the Quest 3, which is bad for competitive play. As for AR, I have it set as my default state for when I'm not in a VR game and it's great because it helps maintain awareness of your surroundings while having the headset than any prior solution. That said, the quality is fairly low resolution and it wobbles quite a bit. I'm sure AR on the Apple Vision Pro will trounce the Quest 3 AR solution.
- stavros 3y ago
  What's the recording you mention?
  - antiterra 3y ago
    The Quest app lets you record mixed reality and there are a decent number of videos of people ordering coffee or baking or whatever in that mode. It turns out that the quality is generally much higher from those recordings than it looks live through the lens. An example of in camera footage (and narrative saying it is misleading) is at 1:18 in https://youtu.be/Gh_46fSwY4U https://youtu.be/Gh_46fSwY4U
sundvor 3y ago
I just want a good device for seated HOTAS / wheel flight Sim/driving sim use, with a reasonably decent FOV. My old OG Lenovo Explorer was ok for Elite Dangerous as a novelty experience, but I found everything pretty much subpar. You had to be right on the sweet spot and only look straight ahead for a warping kind of screen door effect not to be the only thing you'd see, or was it perhaps a blur? And the FOV gave me literal blind zones not experienced in triple screens that caused me to take someone out in racing (he came out from the pits just as I passed, I would have seen it on my triples for sure). And in flight Sims, the resolution was so poor nothing could be made out of the instruments. There's devices like the Pimax Crystal, but here they decided to make it battery powered which contributes to bulk, weight, causing it to be a massive pain in the neck - on top of the battery life issues! Oh and it's obscenely expensive. To add to that, only my old Samsung Gear has allowed diopter adjustments (glasses). I've yet to see any that allows for someone with mild myopia to use VR without dealing with glass inserts. There's just so many compromises. Which is why I stick to my triple qhd 32"s and trackir for now.
- lostmsu 3y ago
  Does trackir adjust your virtual head position in game?
  - sundvor 3y ago
    Yes, and you get to adjust each degree of movement using sliders - so you can go from zero to lots, depending on how you like it. Eg for driving I'd have some minimal movement, and less responsive up/down and tilt (rotating your head sideways), whereas for flying I'd have much more movement in general, and a very responsive look up curve which would let me chase another plane with minimal neck movement. It takes some getting used to, but it really pays off in the long run.
- zeusk 3y ago
  The Bigscreen Beyond requires glass inserts but it is pretty much for your usecase. I'm looking to get one myself.
erinnh 3y ago
This is the reason why I went with a Pico 4 for now. It has flexible IPD and a better screen than the Quest 2, and only cost me 200€. The ecosystem is worse with less apps, but for getting my feet wet it’s ample.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Where can you get the Pico for only 200?
  - erinnh 3y ago
    I bought it on eBay in Germany. No idea how prices are where ever you are.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      I'm in the same area as you. What exactly are you using it for if you say it had worse apps and ecosystme?
      - erinnh 3y ago
        The obvious one is Beat Saber, but in general there’s simply less app support for pico compared to Quest. There’s still stuff, so for now I’m perfectly happy with it. Just have a look at the sidequest store for a direct comparison between software that support quest and pico. I’m mostly using it for fitness related apps right now. Hitstream, Beat Labs (Beat Saber clone).

kalleboo 3y ago

The Apple Vision Pro is coming out next year and it is all about AR and not at all about gaming. When the Vision Pro comes out and brings a new audience to VR, Facebook will just be a software update away from being the cheaper alternative.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>The Apple Vision Pro is coming out next year and it is all about AR and not at all about gaming. That's just Apple, they were never about gaming in the first place. Developers brought games to their platform but Apple themselves never bothered to promote or invest in gaming the same way Microsoft or Linux/Valve did. Although that seems to be recently changing with Apple as well.

verdverm 3y ago

I primarily bought my Q3 as a holdover to the Visor. I use the Immersed app and AR definitely is a great feature when using a virtual desktop setup, for drinking coffee and using a real keyboard. I secondarily bought it as a Q1 upgrade for entertainment. That being said, the AR features still don't hold a candle to the Hololens 2 experience. The hand and environment recognition are still behind, even after 3+ years, and passthrough will never compare to real view. There are tons of visual distortions in the Q3 passthrough to make it usable like the early videos people put out, but for desk work it's fine. Then main issue with Q3 for virtual screens is the uneven pixel density. Words are blurry if not at the center, where you would normally use your eyes to look IRL. This is not peripheral distance, but quick eye glance distance. My understanding is Visor is designing their displays and lenses so this is not an issue.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
I recognize there are legit use cases for AR beyond gimmicks, but for that you need GOOD AR, while the Q3 AR feels kind of janky, half baked and screams of cost cutting compromises. They tried to compromise to get a low priced AR headset to the masses, but in the end fucked it up since the headset is neither low priced enough to be an impulse buy for the masses, nor is the AR good enough to satisfy the tech enthusiasts with money. It ended up being the worst of both worlds, hence the low sales. Q2 really hit the sweet spot in terms of features to price.
- verdverm 3y ago
  I wonder how much of the AR they can fix in software, but I definitely agree with your sentiment on Q3 AR, though not sure I would call it the worst of both worlds. One thing you can do is use the hand recognition in a VR experience instead of requiring controllers. Not having to pick up controllers to use a wrist glance menu is definitely a nice feature in an experience.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >I wonder how much of the AR they can fix in software They have a good track record for SW updates with great improvements, but I buy a device for what it offers now, not for hopes and dreams for the future. >One thing you can do is use the hand recognition in a VR experience instead of requiring controllers. Q2 also does that in VR since a SW update a while ago.

antiterra 3y ago

I have never seen people so excited for VR/AR as they have been by the in-device recording of AR views. Generally everyone is careful to clarify that the real experience is full of warping and distortion, but people are genuinely enjoying even that poor version of what is to come. VR gaming is maybe not the killer app that VR fans think it is, only Beat Saber has really come close. A lot of us genuinely tried to get into VR gaming (for my part I’ve owned: DK2, Rift, GearVR, Rift S, Quest, Quest 2) but decided 2D gaming is better in the current state of things.

elev8d 3y ago
VR gaming interest all depends on the person. I don't think there will be any one single killer app for VR just like there isn't any one singular killer app for a PC or Smartphone. It'll just take years for the one specific app that hooks each individual to be created. I have a few buddies that get online to play Population One with me daily. I have other friends that have no interest in it at all. What's a killer app for me, may not be for you. For me first person shooters are peak VR, but my girlfriend much prefers sports games like tennis, minigolf, and ping pong in VR. I've got an Index, Q3, and just gave my Q2 to a friend. The Q3 is significantly better than the Q2. I'd probably still use my Index as my primary headset, but I don't feel like buying new controllers. I feel like there is no lag with the Index, whereas it remains an issue with PCVR on the Quest 3, which is bad for competitive play. As for AR, I have it set as my default state for when I'm not in a VR game and it's great because it helps maintain awareness of your surroundings while having the headset than any prior solution. That said, the quality is fairly low resolution and it wobbles quite a bit. I'm sure AR on the Apple Vision Pro will trounce the Quest 3 AR solution.
stavros 3y ago
What's the recording you mention?
- antiterra 3y ago
  The Quest app lets you record mixed reality and there are a decent number of videos of people ordering coffee or baking or whatever in that mode. It turns out that the quality is generally much higher from those recordings than it looks live through the lens. An example of in camera footage (and narrative saying it is misleading) is at 1:18 in https://youtu.be/Gh_46fSwY4U https://youtu.be/Gh_46fSwY4U

sundvor 3y ago

I just want a good device for seated HOTAS / wheel flight Sim/driving sim use, with a reasonably decent FOV. My old OG Lenovo Explorer was ok for Elite Dangerous as a novelty experience, but I found everything pretty much subpar. You had to be right on the sweet spot and only look straight ahead for a warping kind of screen door effect not to be the only thing you'd see, or was it perhaps a blur? And the FOV gave me literal blind zones not experienced in triple screens that caused me to take someone out in racing (he came out from the pits just as I passed, I would have seen it on my triples for sure). And in flight Sims, the resolution was so poor nothing could be made out of the instruments. There's devices like the Pimax Crystal, but here they decided to make it battery powered which contributes to bulk, weight, causing it to be a massive pain in the neck - on top of the battery life issues! Oh and it's obscenely expensive. To add to that, only my old Samsung Gear has allowed diopter adjustments (glasses). I've yet to see any that allows for someone with mild myopia to use VR without dealing with glass inserts. There's just so many compromises. Which is why I stick to my triple qhd 32"s and trackir for now.

lostmsu 3y ago
Does trackir adjust your virtual head position in game?
- sundvor 3y ago
  Yes, and you get to adjust each degree of movement using sliders - so you can go from zero to lots, depending on how you like it. Eg for driving I'd have some minimal movement, and less responsive up/down and tilt (rotating your head sideways), whereas for flying I'd have much more movement in general, and a very responsive look up curve which would let me chase another plane with minimal neck movement. It takes some getting used to, but it really pays off in the long run.
zeusk 3y ago
The Bigscreen Beyond requires glass inserts but it is pretty much for your usecase. I'm looking to get one myself.

erinnh 3y ago

This is the reason why I went with a Pico 4 for now. It has flexible IPD and a better screen than the Quest 2, and only cost me 200€. The ecosystem is worse with less apps, but for getting my feet wet it’s ample.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Where can you get the Pico for only 200?
- erinnh 3y ago
  I bought it on eBay in Germany. No idea how prices are where ever you are.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    I'm in the same area as you. What exactly are you using it for if you say it had worse apps and ecosystme?
    - erinnh 3y ago
      The obvious one is Beat Saber, but in general there’s simply less app support for pico compared to Quest. There’s still stuff, so for now I’m perfectly happy with it. Just have a look at the sidequest store for a direct comparison between software that support quest and pico. I’m mostly using it for fitness related apps right now. Hitstream, Beat Labs (Beat Saber clone).