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> it still leaves a bad taste in people's mouths It definitely does, although I don't understand why. One thing making bold forecasts does is motivate your pe

> it still leaves a bad taste in people's mouths It definitely does, although I don't understand why. One thing making bold forecasts does is motivate your people. JFK told us we'd get to the moon this decade which is absolutely nuts. Would we have got there as soon if he had said we'd get to the moon eventually? To the other responder: JFK also had no tangible justification to say we'd get there so soon, and the most likely outcome was that he was going to be wrong. Does that make him a pathological liar?

dmix 3y ago
It's pretty obvious why it's such a big deal recently.
JohnFen 3y ago
> It definitely does, although I don't understand why. Maybe because it's a kind of lying, and people who do it on a regular basis are untrustworthy people? > JFK told us we'd get to the moon this decade which is absolutely nuts. Remember that he didn't phrase it as "we will do this", he phrased it as "this is our goal". He referred to it as a goal we're choosing, not as an inevitability. Musk isn't goal-setting, he's making promises. The difference between the two is critical. One is being a leader, the other is being a liar.
- omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
  If that's lying, then the c-suite of every large auto manufacturer does it on a fairly regular basis. In general, they don't seem to get as much negative attention in the media, and I'm guessing that's because they pay a fair bit for advertising.
  - callalex 3y ago
    I’m not familiar with this, what are you referring to?
    - omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
      General Motors, a company that advertised how safe their vehicles were, knowing about faulty ignition switches in their products but only deciding to perform a recall 10 years after they became aware of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_swit... Almost every manufacturer's claims about EV production, range, etc. Almost every manufacturer's claims about how hard and expensive it would be to add different safety features and/or fuel efficiency improvements.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Except Musk was goal-setting, and there's literally a comment upthread that responds to this factual correction by stating that published goals need to be held to the same standards as promises. Can't win against critics willing to bend reality and forgo consistency of beliefs...
flextheruler 3y ago
You don’t think there was any consultation between JFK and NASA before he gave that speech? A simple search for more information provides this. Kennedy asked Johnson to consult with NASA. Johnson consulted with officials of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Its new administrator, James E. Webb, told him that there was no chance of beating the Russians to launching a space station, and he was not certain that NASA could orbit a man around the Moon first, so the best option would be to attempt to land a man on the Moon. This would also be the most expensive option; Webb believed it would require $22 billion (equivalent to $166 billion in 2022) to achieve it by 1970. Johnson also consulted with Wernher von Braun; military leaders, including Lieutenant General Bernard Schriever; and three business executives: Frank Stanton from CBS, Donald C. Cook from American Electric Power, and George R. Brown from Brown & Root. JFK was stating an experts opinion in a speech not spitballing random estimates that were changing yearly in order to make him and the US seem awesome.
kelnos 3y ago
I think there are some lines you shouldn't cross. Like having people pre-pay a bunch of money for FSD, claiming it's going to be ready in a certain amount of time, but wildly missing that deadline and not offering to refund people's money. And certainly there's a "pile on" element as well. Musk is, to put it mildly, a controversial character in general. It's easier to take someone you already don't like, and criticize them more harshly for other faults than you would for someone (like JFK, perhaps) that you otherwise generally like. Maybe that's not fair, but it seems pretty human-nature-y. Another point: is there a way to make bold forecasts in order to motivate your employees, without making it feel like a promise to your customers? If so, Musk generally fails at that.

dmix 3y ago

It's pretty obvious why it's such a big deal recently.

JohnFen 3y ago

> It definitely does, although I don't understand why. Maybe because it's a kind of lying, and people who do it on a regular basis are untrustworthy people? > JFK told us we'd get to the moon this decade which is absolutely nuts. Remember that he didn't phrase it as "we will do this", he phrased it as "this is our goal". He referred to it as a goal we're choosing, not as an inevitability. Musk isn't goal-setting, he's making promises. The difference between the two is critical. One is being a leader, the other is being a liar.

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
If that's lying, then the c-suite of every large auto manufacturer does it on a fairly regular basis. In general, they don't seem to get as much negative attention in the media, and I'm guessing that's because they pay a fair bit for advertising.
- callalex 3y ago
  I’m not familiar with this, what are you referring to?
  - omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
    General Motors, a company that advertised how safe their vehicles were, knowing about faulty ignition switches in their products but only deciding to perform a recall 10 years after they became aware of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_swit... Almost every manufacturer's claims about EV production, range, etc. Almost every manufacturer's claims about how hard and expensive it would be to add different safety features and/or fuel efficiency improvements.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
Except Musk was goal-setting, and there's literally a comment upthread that responds to this factual correction by stating that published goals need to be held to the same standards as promises. Can't win against critics willing to bend reality and forgo consistency of beliefs...

flextheruler 3y ago

You don’t think there was any consultation between JFK and NASA before he gave that speech? A simple search for more information provides this. Kennedy asked Johnson to consult with NASA. Johnson consulted with officials of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Its new administrator, James E. Webb, told him that there was no chance of beating the Russians to launching a space station, and he was not certain that NASA could orbit a man around the Moon first, so the best option would be to attempt to land a man on the Moon. This would also be the most expensive option; Webb believed it would require $22 billion (equivalent to $166 billion in 2022) to achieve it by 1970. Johnson also consulted with Wernher von Braun; military leaders, including Lieutenant General Bernard Schriever; and three business executives: Frank Stanton from CBS, Donald C. Cook from American Electric Power, and George R. Brown from Brown & Root. JFK was stating an experts opinion in a speech not spitballing random estimates that were changing yearly in order to make him and the US seem awesome.

kelnos 3y ago

I think there are some lines you shouldn't cross. Like having people pre-pay a bunch of money for FSD, claiming it's going to be ready in a certain amount of time, but wildly missing that deadline and not offering to refund people's money. And certainly there's a "pile on" element as well. Musk is, to put it mildly, a controversial character in general. It's easier to take someone you already don't like, and criticize them more harshly for other faults than you would for someone (like JFK, perhaps) that you otherwise generally like. Maybe that's not fair, but it seems pretty human-nature-y. Another point: is there a way to make bold forecasts in order to motivate your employees, without making it feel like a promise to your customers? If so, Musk generally fails at that.