7 ms·

Can't return? Don't care. Cancel payment with credit card processor. Problem solved.

by fleitz 15y ago

tocomment 15y ago
Does that generally work? Best Buy can't block that?
- dangrossman 15y ago
  All chargebacks can be disputed. Best Buy can provide evidence, including the return policies shown on the kiosk, which the banks will review to determine if the chargeback should stand or not. If Best Buy also loses the dispute, the customer will keep their money, but Best Buy still has the option of a court case.
  - mangodrunk 15y ago
    It seems that businesses have an uphill battle in that they have to spend time and money to provide evidence whereas the customer can simply make a claim. And the option of a court case doesn't seem like a good option either, would it cover court costs, and if it does they might be against such things for the bad publicity it might generate.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
      The claim has to be reasonable. If you buy a pair of $10 shoes and try to chargeback a year later, the bank will almost certainly refuse. OTOH, as I said in another post, if you purchased something and it was not as expected and the vendor won't take a return, the chargeback will almost certainly go through. There are exceptions, but not many.
    - dangrossman 15y ago
      That's one of the reasons most stores have such generous return policies. There's a cost to having an upset customer whether they're right or wrong... at least, when they pay with credit. Sometimes it's cheaper to take a loss on the return than to deal with a chargeback -- which costs time and money even if you successfully dispute the customer's claims.
- HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
  In my experience it is very rare for a merchant to be able to stop a chargeback in a case like this. I ordered an expensive (at the time) PC that wasn't shipped within weeks of when the vendor said. After I got tired of the runaround from them, I cancelled the order and bought from someone else. A day later the original PC shows up. Talking to the vendor sales people got me nowhere (the owner even called me to bitch about me wanting to return it and how he absolutely refused to return my money!), I called the bank/Visa to do a chargeback, explaining that I had waited two weeks after the promised date and bought another PC but the vendor didn't want to take my cancelled order back. Without any argument, the customer service told me to package it up and ship it back with proof of shipment and immediately credited me the full amount. I never heard a thing about it after that. I have never had a chargeback request refused. Granted, I only do it as a last resort, but still.
Simucal 15y ago
Can you really do this that easily? I remember one time trying to cancel a payment to a service which failed to provide what they promised and I was given to a resolution specialist. That specialist said they would refund me right away but then bank would do an investigation into the transaction. If it turned out my position wasn't defendable then they would re-apply the charge to my credit card. It seems like a store saying that the purchase was made with a clearly stated return policy would be hard to argue against to your bank.
- fleitz 15y ago
  Did you tell them you were going to move all your banking, mortgage, RRSP, line of credit and credit cards to another bank because of the poor customer service and failure to resolve the issue of the chargeback? I've found that when you come in to your bank to close out all your accounts, especially with an ATM card/freshly filled out paperwork for another bank they usually ask if there is anyway they can keep your business. At such times they've been known to recall that the #1 policy is making money, and they don't make very much money when your accounts are at another institution. It's good to move your accounts around every now and then someone's always got a free iPod or whatever.
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    The chargeback resolution policies are set by Visa and MasterCard, not by the bank. They do not have the option of forcing a chargeback where the store you shopped at did no wrong. Some bank manager could decide to give you their money in the form of a statement credit, I suppose... Either way, switching banks regularly in order to steal electronics from stores doesn't sound like very ethical advice.
    - fleitz 15y ago
      I think the author wanted the device his wife had, he reasonably assumed that a product with the exact same name would be the same product. Now he can't return it to get the device he really wanted to buy and reasonably assumed he would be buying. I don't know whether it's ethical, perhaps a philosopher can weigh in on that, in the meantime I think the author wants his cash back and the device returned. About the iPod I meant the offers the banks make when you open accounts and move a bill or two and deposit a couple hundred bucks for a month or two. What are the ethics around the myriad of fees surrounding VISA/MasterCard? What's the ethics around cutting off wikileaks from funding? What are the ethics around selling cables at 800% markup using illogical arguments about digital cables being 'better'? The world isn't an ethical place my friend.
Yarnage 15y ago
I think you mean charge back as the payment has already occurred.
- fleitz 15y ago
  Yup, that's the right term for what I meant.
Karunamon 15y ago
Wouldn't that be fraudulent? As in, you've got goods in hand, and just deprived the retailer of the price of the item (plus a little more)?
- dangrossman 15y ago
  There are a number of chargeback codes for things like item-not-as-described. If there is fraud on the part of the merchant, they can be deprived of the money and the goods, as far as Visa/MasterCard's Operating Regulations are concerned. If the merchant loses their dispute of the chargeback, their remaining recourse is to take the customer to court.
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    export devilsadvocate="1" But in this instance, the "description" was what you saw right in front of you. It's not fraud to sell you something from a glass case right in front of you. From a CS perspective I can see why it would be the right thing to accept a return, but not so much a legal issue.
- wpietri 15y ago
  If you've offered to send the thing back, I don't think it's fraud at all.
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    Breaking into a store and taking something is still wrong, even if you give it back later or leave the money on the counter.
    - wpietri 15y ago
      True, but irrelevant. We're talking about commerce, not armed robbery. Trying to return something to a store is not fraud. This guy in particular always intended to pay for a case like his wife's. If he didn't get what he expected, then returning the product for a refund is reasonable and legal. If he sends them a note saying, "I am returning the product and canceling my payment; where should I send it?" then no fraud has been committed.

Can't return? Don't care. Cancel payment with credit card processor. Problem solved.

by fleitz 15y ago

Can't return? Don't care. Cancel payment with credit card processor. Problem solved.

tocomment 15y ago

Does that generally work? Best Buy can't block that?

dangrossman 15y ago
All chargebacks can be disputed. Best Buy can provide evidence, including the return policies shown on the kiosk, which the banks will review to determine if the chargeback should stand or not. If Best Buy also loses the dispute, the customer will keep their money, but Best Buy still has the option of a court case.
- mangodrunk 15y ago
  It seems that businesses have an uphill battle in that they have to spend time and money to provide evidence whereas the customer can simply make a claim. And the option of a court case doesn't seem like a good option either, would it cover court costs, and if it does they might be against such things for the bad publicity it might generate.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
    The claim has to be reasonable. If you buy a pair of $10 shoes and try to chargeback a year later, the bank will almost certainly refuse. OTOH, as I said in another post, if you purchased something and it was not as expected and the vendor won't take a return, the chargeback will almost certainly go through. There are exceptions, but not many.
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    That's one of the reasons most stores have such generous return policies. There's a cost to having an upset customer whether they're right or wrong... at least, when they pay with credit. Sometimes it's cheaper to take a loss on the return than to deal with a chargeback -- which costs time and money even if you successfully dispute the customer's claims.
HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
In my experience it is very rare for a merchant to be able to stop a chargeback in a case like this. I ordered an expensive (at the time) PC that wasn't shipped within weeks of when the vendor said. After I got tired of the runaround from them, I cancelled the order and bought from someone else. A day later the original PC shows up. Talking to the vendor sales people got me nowhere (the owner even called me to bitch about me wanting to return it and how he absolutely refused to return my money!), I called the bank/Visa to do a chargeback, explaining that I had waited two weeks after the promised date and bought another PC but the vendor didn't want to take my cancelled order back. Without any argument, the customer service told me to package it up and ship it back with proof of shipment and immediately credited me the full amount. I never heard a thing about it after that. I have never had a chargeback request refused. Granted, I only do it as a last resort, but still.

Simucal 15y ago

Can you really do this that easily? I remember one time trying to cancel a payment to a service which failed to provide what they promised and I was given to a resolution specialist. That specialist said they would refund me right away but then bank would do an investigation into the transaction. If it turned out my position wasn't defendable then they would re-apply the charge to my credit card. It seems like a store saying that the purchase was made with a clearly stated return policy would be hard to argue against to your bank.

fleitz 15y ago
Did you tell them you were going to move all your banking, mortgage, RRSP, line of credit and credit cards to another bank because of the poor customer service and failure to resolve the issue of the chargeback? I've found that when you come in to your bank to close out all your accounts, especially with an ATM card/freshly filled out paperwork for another bank they usually ask if there is anyway they can keep your business. At such times they've been known to recall that the #1 policy is making money, and they don't make very much money when your accounts are at another institution. It's good to move your accounts around every now and then someone's always got a free iPod or whatever.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  The chargeback resolution policies are set by Visa and MasterCard, not by the bank. They do not have the option of forcing a chargeback where the store you shopped at did no wrong. Some bank manager could decide to give you their money in the form of a statement credit, I suppose... Either way, switching banks regularly in order to steal electronics from stores doesn't sound like very ethical advice.
  - fleitz 15y ago
    I think the author wanted the device his wife had, he reasonably assumed that a product with the exact same name would be the same product. Now he can't return it to get the device he really wanted to buy and reasonably assumed he would be buying. I don't know whether it's ethical, perhaps a philosopher can weigh in on that, in the meantime I think the author wants his cash back and the device returned. About the iPod I meant the offers the banks make when you open accounts and move a bill or two and deposit a couple hundred bucks for a month or two. What are the ethics around the myriad of fees surrounding VISA/MasterCard? What's the ethics around cutting off wikileaks from funding? What are the ethics around selling cables at 800% markup using illogical arguments about digital cables being 'better'? The world isn't an ethical place my friend.

Yarnage 15y ago

I think you mean charge back as the payment has already occurred.

fleitz 15y ago
Yup, that's the right term for what I meant.

Karunamon 15y ago

Wouldn't that be fraudulent? As in, you've got goods in hand, and just deprived the retailer of the price of the item (plus a little more)?

dangrossman 15y ago
There are a number of chargeback codes for things like item-not-as-described. If there is fraud on the part of the merchant, they can be deprived of the money and the goods, as far as Visa/MasterCard's Operating Regulations are concerned. If the merchant loses their dispute of the chargeback, their remaining recourse is to take the customer to court.
- Karunamon 15y ago
  export devilsadvocate="1" But in this instance, the "description" was what you saw right in front of you. It's not fraud to sell you something from a glass case right in front of you. From a CS perspective I can see why it would be the right thing to accept a return, but not so much a legal issue.
wpietri 15y ago
If you've offered to send the thing back, I don't think it's fraud at all.
- Karunamon 15y ago
  Breaking into a store and taking something is still wrong, even if you give it back later or leave the money on the counter.
  - wpietri 15y ago
    True, but irrelevant. We're talking about commerce, not armed robbery. Trying to return something to a store is not fraud. This guy in particular always intended to pay for a case like his wife's. If he didn't get what he expected, then returning the product for a refund is reasonable and legal. If he sends them a note saying, "I am returning the product and canceling my payment; where should I send it?" then no fraud has been committed.