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> Japan and Germany have been pretty well behaved since the Allies ground them to the dust during WW2 - why do you think it couldn't work here? The grinding in

> Japan and Germany have been pretty well behaved since the Allies ground them to the dust during WW2 - why do you think it couldn't work here? The grinding into dust was a small part of the reason for the successful outcome The main victor in WWII poured vast resources into rebuilding the economies of Germany and Japan, ensured their viability as nation states, fostered democracy and encouraged the creation of an environment fostering equality, cooperation and growth. This all ensured residual bitterness was overcome relatively quickly. Israel so far has done very much the opposite to the Palestinians. The prospects for long term peace look grim without a more magnanimous victor. The West Bank is every year more decimated by settlements with Palestinians forced into tighter and tighter enclaves. This is not a recipe for long term peace

ejb999 3y ago
grinding them into the dust was not a 'small part of the reason', it was the only reason it worked in the first place. What do you think would have happened had the allies given billions of dollars in aid to Germany while the Nazi's were still in power? They would do exactly what the Palestinians have done with the aid they got - bought more weapons and killed more Jews. Palestine has already received much, much, much more aid - in inflation adjusted dollars per capita, than Germany ever did - the only missing ingredient is destroying the terrorists and their supporters that run the country and then controlling, with absolute power, what that money is spent on - only then will things change for the better for both Israel and the Palestinians.
- biorach 3y ago
  The reality on the ground in the West Bank runs contrary to this story. Two infitadas crushed, Arafat long dead, a supine administration facilitates Israeli military occupation, Israeli settlers continue to pour in, expropriation and colonisation continue, the Israeli army dominates a territory where things only change for the worse for Palestinians. In the West Bank "destroying the terrorists and their supporters that run the country" had lead to settlers and the army forcing Palestinians into every smaller enclaves making a Palestinian state increasingly unviable. So no. Please do not claim that "grinding them into the dust" is going to lead to a better future for Palestinians. It is leading to colonisation and oppression.
  - ejb999 3y ago
    we will have to agree to disagree - perhaps distasteful, but a generation may need to be sacrificed in order to get lasting peace - just like was done in germany and japan during ww2. Did lots of non-combatants die? without a doubt. Is it sad? also without a doubt. Were all the generations after that allowed to grow up and live in relative peace and prosperity because of that? Yes they were. The reason things keep getting worse for the Palestinian's is because they insist on squandering any aid they get on buying more and more weapons - very little of that makes it to the 'women and children'. Until that cycle is stopped, nothing will change. Hamas is perfectly willing to use their own women and children as human shields - those terrorists need to be killed with extreme prejudice, which will include a lot of collateral damage - until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone.
    - licebmi__at__ 3y ago
      I always considered Gandhi suggestion for the Jews to suicide as a protest against the holocaust quite distasteful, yours seem a lot worse. But perhaps consider that the fact that the median age in Gaza is 18 years old, as an indication that maybe a generation has already being sacrificed. Or maybe, if we are going to abandon any trace of humanity in search of a solution, are you suggesting to sacrifice a generation on the Israeli side?
    - biorach 3y ago
      > just like was done in germany and japan during ww2. The difference is that the USA did not expropriate and colonise the majority of their territory and reduce them to servile status, which is what is happening in the West Bank. Instead it ensured a viable homeland and democracy. Neither of which are happening in the West Bank. The long term trajectory there is towards reduction of Palestinians to second class status, the inverse of what happened in Japan and Germany. > those terrorists need to be killed with extreme prejudice, which will include a lot of collateral damage - until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone. I agree that Hamas are disgusting and should be stopped. Equally, Israeli colonisation needs to be stopped and until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone.

ejb999 3y ago

grinding them into the dust was not a 'small part of the reason', it was the only reason it worked in the first place. What do you think would have happened had the allies given billions of dollars in aid to Germany while the Nazi's were still in power? They would do exactly what the Palestinians have done with the aid they got - bought more weapons and killed more Jews. Palestine has already received much, much, much more aid - in inflation adjusted dollars per capita, than Germany ever did - the only missing ingredient is destroying the terrorists and their supporters that run the country and then controlling, with absolute power, what that money is spent on - only then will things change for the better for both Israel and the Palestinians.

biorach 3y ago
The reality on the ground in the West Bank runs contrary to this story. Two infitadas crushed, Arafat long dead, a supine administration facilitates Israeli military occupation, Israeli settlers continue to pour in, expropriation and colonisation continue, the Israeli army dominates a territory where things only change for the worse for Palestinians. In the West Bank "destroying the terrorists and their supporters that run the country" had lead to settlers and the army forcing Palestinians into every smaller enclaves making a Palestinian state increasingly unviable. So no. Please do not claim that "grinding them into the dust" is going to lead to a better future for Palestinians. It is leading to colonisation and oppression.
- ejb999 3y ago
  we will have to agree to disagree - perhaps distasteful, but a generation may need to be sacrificed in order to get lasting peace - just like was done in germany and japan during ww2. Did lots of non-combatants die? without a doubt. Is it sad? also without a doubt. Were all the generations after that allowed to grow up and live in relative peace and prosperity because of that? Yes they were. The reason things keep getting worse for the Palestinian's is because they insist on squandering any aid they get on buying more and more weapons - very little of that makes it to the 'women and children'. Until that cycle is stopped, nothing will change. Hamas is perfectly willing to use their own women and children as human shields - those terrorists need to be killed with extreme prejudice, which will include a lot of collateral damage - until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone.
  - licebmi__at__ 3y ago
    I always considered Gandhi suggestion for the Jews to suicide as a protest against the holocaust quite distasteful, yours seem a lot worse. But perhaps consider that the fact that the median age in Gaza is 18 years old, as an indication that maybe a generation has already being sacrificed. Or maybe, if we are going to abandon any trace of humanity in search of a solution, are you suggesting to sacrifice a generation on the Israeli side?
  - biorach 3y ago
    > just like was done in germany and japan during ww2. The difference is that the USA did not expropriate and colonise the majority of their territory and reduce them to servile status, which is what is happening in the West Bank. Instead it ensured a viable homeland and democracy. Neither of which are happening in the West Bank. The long term trajectory there is towards reduction of Palestinians to second class status, the inverse of what happened in Japan and Germany. > those terrorists need to be killed with extreme prejudice, which will include a lot of collateral damage - until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone. I agree that Hamas are disgusting and should be stopped. Equally, Israeli colonisation needs to be stopped and until that happens, there will be no peace for anyone.