5 ms·

"BM:Rod Orgill and I had completed the designs of a few microprocessors before the 6501/6502. In other words, Rod and I already knew what was successful in an i

"BM:Rod Orgill and I had completed the designs of a few microprocessors before the 6501/6502. In other words, Rod and I already knew what was successful in an instruction set. And lower cost was key. So we looked at what instructions we really needed." If only this minimalism mindset were more commonplace! Many products today seem like the result of an endless race to include everything & the kitchen sink, to one-up a competitor with yet another feature. Especially on the software side of things. Yes there's a (relentless) drive to minimize manufacturing costs, logistics, or money spent on support. But rarely on minimizing / simplifying products themselves. If carmaker puts a cup holder in their car & customers like it, competitors' next cars 'must' include a cup holder too. Rinse & repeat ad nauseum. In contrast, taking something out and still have the product be useful, seems like a Zen mastery black art that few designers practice. Let alone companies they work for. One example: occasionally I take broken electronics apart. Sometimes to see if there's parts worth scavenging. Often out of curiosity, to have a look at design details. And have grown some appreciation of Chinese' manufacturers tendency to snip parts from products (aka Muntzing). Use a thinned pcb trace as fuse. Or: use a single diode instead of a bridge rectifier. Yes, it only uses half of the AC cycle. Electricity producers might frown at that. All else being equal, requires 2x capacitance. But.. for small capacitor values, diode + bigger capacitor is likely cheaper. And saves 1 diode voltage drop (+ associated losses). Crude, but brilliant in a way. Simplified design that still does the job.

lisper 3y ago
Ultimately these decisions come down to value judgements. Which is better, more simplicity and lower cost, or more robustness and longer service life? Because often it's one or the other.
dylan604 3y ago
> If carmaker puts a cup holder in their car & customers like it, competitors' next cars 'must' include a cup holder too. Rinse & repeat ad nauseum. I think this doesn't reinforce your argument in the way you intended. A car manufacturer isn't going to look at a competitor and see what items need to be removed to lower cost when that item, as you've stated was a success since customers like it, it would be dumb to not include it. You don't want to not include liked items. You want to not include the items the customers do not like.
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  > as you've stated was a success since customers like it, it would be dumb to not include it. So... carmaker includes (successful) feature x, y or z in their new car. And not willing to seem dumb, for competitors the tendency is to include x, y or z as well? That turns x/y/z into checkbox items. And every new car model will feature them. Exactly what I complained about, right? As opposed to going your own way. Or choosing a select subset of features & stick to that. Even if some % of your customers disapprove. Do all cars need motorized windows? Hand cranks used to do the job. But good luck finding a modern car whose designers think so. Clearly not a design choice that varies between brands, but one of those 'checkbox items' for modern cars.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Well, to start, you chose cup holders which means to me you weren't being very serious. Let's take a better example of touch screen units. One company did it, and others followed. Now, the trendsetters will be the ones removing them. What was the first company to remove the cigarette lighter and ashtrays? Who was the first to add motorized mirrors so they could be adjusted from the driver's seat? Have you actually ever used hand cranked windows? Nobody wants to go back to them. If a company releases a car with hand cranked windows and motorized windows but they see that everyone prefers the motorized windows, why would they continue to offer the hand cranked? I think you're trying to lump a lot of decisions into a category that they don't belong. The manufactures see the numbers and trends. They make decisions. When touch screens came out, everyone thought they were the shiznit. It wasn't until lots of use did people start realizing that the tactile buttons were actually a good thing. There are some misses to be sure, but you act like there's zero research into it. Which just seems immature.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

lisper 3y ago

Ultimately these decisions come down to value judgements. Which is better, more simplicity and lower cost, or more robustness and longer service life? Because often it's one or the other.

dylan604 3y ago

> If carmaker puts a cup holder in their car & customers like it, competitors' next cars 'must' include a cup holder too. Rinse & repeat ad nauseum. I think this doesn't reinforce your argument in the way you intended. A car manufacturer isn't going to look at a competitor and see what items need to be removed to lower cost when that item, as you've stated was a success since customers like it, it would be dumb to not include it. You don't want to not include liked items. You want to not include the items the customers do not like.

RetroTechie 3y ago
> as you've stated was a success since customers like it, it would be dumb to not include it. So... carmaker includes (successful) feature x, y or z in their new car. And not willing to seem dumb, for competitors the tendency is to include x, y or z as well? That turns x/y/z into checkbox items. And every new car model will feature them. Exactly what I complained about, right? As opposed to going your own way. Or choosing a select subset of features & stick to that. Even if some % of your customers disapprove. Do all cars need motorized windows? Hand cranks used to do the job. But good luck finding a modern car whose designers think so. Clearly not a design choice that varies between brands, but one of those 'checkbox items' for modern cars.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Well, to start, you chose cup holders which means to me you weren't being very serious. Let's take a better example of touch screen units. One company did it, and others followed. Now, the trendsetters will be the ones removing them. What was the first company to remove the cigarette lighter and ashtrays? Who was the first to add motorized mirrors so they could be adjusted from the driver's seat? Have you actually ever used hand cranked windows? Nobody wants to go back to them. If a company releases a car with hand cranked windows and motorized windows but they see that everyone prefers the motorized windows, why would they continue to offer the hand cranked? I think you're trying to lump a lot of decisions into a category that they don't belong. The manufactures see the numbers and trends. They make decisions. When touch screens came out, everyone thought they were the shiznit. It wasn't until lots of use did people start realizing that the tactile buttons were actually a good thing. There are some misses to be sure, but you act like there's zero research into it. Which just seems immature.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]