4 ms·

hasn't this already been in fedora for almost a year?

brancz 3y ago
You're not wrong, but isn't it exciting that it's gaining more traction? Ubuntu is also very widely deployed, so I'll celebrate every distro that makes this the default, be it Ubuntu in this case, or Debian, or Arch, or Suse, or or or...
bravetraveler 3y ago
I believe so, I remember a fair amount of hubbub over it. Can't say it's been useful here, any development I do is miles away from this. It hasn't hurt either so... cool, I guess Call me pessimistic, but I'm not convinced this being the default will lead to more profiling. There's plenty that could be done without this, that isn't, so I'm not buying it.
- brancz 3y ago
  While profiling benefits immensely, imagine all the other ramifications. Cheap tracing of MySQL, postgres, or anything else using bpftrace or any other bcc tools. Getting stack traces of processes that are already core dumping... Profiling is one part, but the debuggability this enables is going to be huge in the long term I predict.
pavon 3y ago
Yeah. To be fair there is a stronger argument for it being enabled in fedora than an LTS release (RHEL or Ubuntu) since it has more cutting edge software that needs more frequent debugging, is less likely to be used in production where the (minor, but uneven) performance hits may matter, and has so many upstream developers using it as their daily driver.
- brancz 3y ago
  I would argue that LTS releases are going to be deployed millions of times and stay around effectively forever with lots of very critical software being deployed on it. Having all processes/binaries be debuggable cheaply and easily in stressful situations is a major improvement that's now here to stay.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Agreed that cutting-edge software likely needs more frequent debugging, but I don't think that means LTS releases shouldn't be easier to debug. Consider that you're a big company deploying software to hundreds or thousands of machines, and you hit a difficult-to-diagnose performance issue, crash, etc. You'll very much appreciate if the OS has made it easier for you to debug things. Put another way, Fedora users/developers might appreciate having frame pointers because they have to debug more frequently, but RHEL/LTS release users might appreciate frame pointers because on the less-frequent occasion when they need to debug, the stakes are much higher.
rwmj 3y ago
Yes: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fno-omit-frame-pointer https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fno-omit-frame-pointe...

You're not wrong, but isn't it exciting that it's gaining more traction? Ubuntu is also very widely deployed, so I'll celebrate every distro that makes this the default, be it Ubuntu in this case, or Debian, or Arch, or Suse, or or or...

bravetraveler 3y ago

I believe so, I remember a fair amount of hubbub over it. Can't say it's been useful here, any development I do is miles away from this. It hasn't hurt either so... cool, I guess Call me pessimistic, but I'm not convinced this being the default will lead to more profiling. There's plenty that could be done without this, that isn't, so I'm not buying it.

brancz 3y ago
While profiling benefits immensely, imagine all the other ramifications. Cheap tracing of MySQL, postgres, or anything else using bpftrace or any other bcc tools. Getting stack traces of processes that are already core dumping... Profiling is one part, but the debuggability this enables is going to be huge in the long term I predict.

pavon 3y ago

Yeah. To be fair there is a stronger argument for it being enabled in fedora than an LTS release (RHEL or Ubuntu) since it has more cutting edge software that needs more frequent debugging, is less likely to be used in production where the (minor, but uneven) performance hits may matter, and has so many upstream developers using it as their daily driver.

brancz 3y ago
I would argue that LTS releases are going to be deployed millions of times and stay around effectively forever with lots of very critical software being deployed on it. Having all processes/binaries be debuggable cheaply and easily in stressful situations is a major improvement that's now here to stay.
kelnos 3y ago
Agreed that cutting-edge software likely needs more frequent debugging, but I don't think that means LTS releases shouldn't be easier to debug. Consider that you're a big company deploying software to hundreds or thousands of machines, and you hit a difficult-to-diagnose performance issue, crash, etc. You'll very much appreciate if the OS has made it easier for you to debug things. Put another way, Fedora users/developers might appreciate having frame pointers because they have to debug more frequently, but RHEL/LTS release users might appreciate frame pointers because on the less-frequent occasion when they need to debug, the stakes are much higher.

rwmj 3y ago

Yes: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fno-omit-frame-pointer https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fno-omit-frame-pointe...