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If you think of the current Israel occupation as the latest colonizer in a long line of colonizers throughout the history of Palestine, then the victimhood make

If you think of the current Israel occupation as the latest colonizer in a long line of colonizers throughout the history of Palestine, then the victimhood makes perfect sense. Colonized people often adopt the religion and sometimes even the language of their colonizers. As an example, the Irish adopted the language of the English during their colonization, and the Albanians adopted Islam when they were colonized by the Ottomans. Likewise the Palestinians adopted both the language and (mostly) the religion of the Arabs when they colonized Palestine in 637. Now when Israel is their colonizer, things are a bit different. Not only has Israel imposed a new language, culture and religion onto their lands, but they have also severely displaced them. No colonizer has done that to the Palestinians in the past, not even the British.

skissane 3y ago
> Now when Israel is their colonizer, things are a bit different. Not only has Israel imposed a new language, culture and religion onto their lands, but they have also severely displaced them. No colonizer has done that to the Palestinians in the past, Modern Judaism permits conversion but refuses to promote or encourage it, and sometimes even goes out of its way to make it hard (especially some of the more conservative Orthodox). Hence, there has never been any encouragement for Palestinians to convert. It wasn’t always thus - John Hyrcanus forced the Idumeans to convert to Judaism; but that was over 2000 years ago now. By contrast, Islamic conquerors always made it easy for conquered peoples to convert to Islam, and encouraged it through a mixture of carrots and sticks. The same is true of Christianity. Possibly, this is part of what sustains the Israel-Palestine conflict; if contemporary Judaism were pro-conversion, many of the Palestinians might have already become Jews by now.
selimthegrim 3y ago
Albanians are not even remotely 100% Muslim
- runarberg 3y ago
  Nor does 100% of the Irish speak English as their first language, nor are Palestinians 100% Muslims. The point is that it is not uncommon for colonized nations to adopt the language or the religion of their colonizers, even if the transition is not always—and indeed quite seldomly—complete.
rayiner 3y ago
> If you think of the current Israel occupation as the latest colonizer in a long line of colonizers throughout the history of Palestine, then the victimhood makes perfect sense The Muslims are the colonizers. Israel is just taking their land back. Who built the Temple Mount the Dome of the Rock is sitting on?
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  I have a question for you. What do you think should be done with the "stranded Biharis" in Bangladesh who never took BD citizenship?
- runarberg 3y ago
  What!? No. You don’t get to decide who is colonizing whom. Palestinians have lived on this land for centuries. Yes they were colonized by muslims in the past, but not displaced. They stayed on their land and converted to Islam. Israelis are not native to this land. Sharing a religion with one of many religions Palestinians have held in the past does not make the land indigenous to anyone except the Palestinians them selves. Just like Roman Catholics are not indigenous to the Vatican, not even the Roman Catholic minority in Romania. European Jews have been a very real part of European history for dozens of generations. The history of European Jews is indeed a very rich history. They are a culture of their own, some even speak their own Germanic language (Yiddish). They are as European as me (an Icelander) and are indeed indigenous to Europe, not Palestine. The minority of European Jews who migrated to Palestine and later founded their own state on Palestinian lands did so by establishing a colony. This by definition makes them colonizers. “Who built the Temple Mount the Dome of the Rock is sitting on?” Palestinians did, back before they converted to Islam, back when majority of Palestinians were still Jewish, and probably called the land Judea. Likewise, the Jews built the Temple Mount, back when they lived in historic Palestine. European Jews can claim that their ancestors built the Temple Mount, and they wouldn’t be wrong. In fact they can be proud of their ancestors. However, claiming that European Jews built the Temple Mount, that would be wrong. This is no different than the question of “Who built the Pyramids?” Egyptians built the Pyramids. When the Egyptians built the Pyramids they practiced a different religion and spoke a different language. Since then they have been colonized multiple times over, by the Greeks, by the Romans, by the Byzantines, by the Umayyad Caliphate, by the Ottomans, by the French, by the British, etc. The Egyptians that built the Pyramids didn’t call them selves Egyptians and they probably didn’t call their land “Egypt”, It was still the Egyptians that built the Pyramids.

skissane 3y ago

> Now when Israel is their colonizer, things are a bit different. Not only has Israel imposed a new language, culture and religion onto their lands, but they have also severely displaced them. No colonizer has done that to the Palestinians in the past, Modern Judaism permits conversion but refuses to promote or encourage it, and sometimes even goes out of its way to make it hard (especially some of the more conservative Orthodox). Hence, there has never been any encouragement for Palestinians to convert. It wasn’t always thus - John Hyrcanus forced the Idumeans to convert to Judaism; but that was over 2000 years ago now. By contrast, Islamic conquerors always made it easy for conquered peoples to convert to Islam, and encouraged it through a mixture of carrots and sticks. The same is true of Christianity. Possibly, this is part of what sustains the Israel-Palestine conflict; if contemporary Judaism were pro-conversion, many of the Palestinians might have already become Jews by now.

selimthegrim 3y ago

Albanians are not even remotely 100% Muslim

runarberg 3y ago
Nor does 100% of the Irish speak English as their first language, nor are Palestinians 100% Muslims. The point is that it is not uncommon for colonized nations to adopt the language or the religion of their colonizers, even if the transition is not always—and indeed quite seldomly—complete.

rayiner 3y ago

> If you think of the current Israel occupation as the latest colonizer in a long line of colonizers throughout the history of Palestine, then the victimhood makes perfect sense The Muslims are the colonizers. Israel is just taking their land back. Who built the Temple Mount the Dome of the Rock is sitting on?

selimthegrim 3y ago
I have a question for you. What do you think should be done with the "stranded Biharis" in Bangladesh who never took BD citizenship?
runarberg 3y ago
What!? No. You don’t get to decide who is colonizing whom. Palestinians have lived on this land for centuries. Yes they were colonized by muslims in the past, but not displaced. They stayed on their land and converted to Islam. Israelis are not native to this land. Sharing a religion with one of many religions Palestinians have held in the past does not make the land indigenous to anyone except the Palestinians them selves. Just like Roman Catholics are not indigenous to the Vatican, not even the Roman Catholic minority in Romania. European Jews have been a very real part of European history for dozens of generations. The history of European Jews is indeed a very rich history. They are a culture of their own, some even speak their own Germanic language (Yiddish). They are as European as me (an Icelander) and are indeed indigenous to Europe, not Palestine. The minority of European Jews who migrated to Palestine and later founded their own state on Palestinian lands did so by establishing a colony. This by definition makes them colonizers. “Who built the Temple Mount the Dome of the Rock is sitting on?” Palestinians did, back before they converted to Islam, back when majority of Palestinians were still Jewish, and probably called the land Judea. Likewise, the Jews built the Temple Mount, back when they lived in historic Palestine. European Jews can claim that their ancestors built the Temple Mount, and they wouldn’t be wrong. In fact they can be proud of their ancestors. However, claiming that European Jews built the Temple Mount, that would be wrong. This is no different than the question of “Who built the Pyramids?” Egyptians built the Pyramids. When the Egyptians built the Pyramids they practiced a different religion and spoke a different language. Since then they have been colonized multiple times over, by the Greeks, by the Romans, by the Byzantines, by the Umayyad Caliphate, by the Ottomans, by the French, by the British, etc. The Egyptians that built the Pyramids didn’t call them selves Egyptians and they probably didn’t call their land “Egypt”, It was still the Egyptians that built the Pyramids.