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Well, the author describes a certain kind of culture surrounding certain kinds of programming, anyway. It's a culture that seems pretty common in web developmen

by ajdecon 14y ago

Well, the author describes a certain kind of culture surrounding certain kinds of programming, anyway. It's a culture that seems pretty common in web development circles, in startups, and on HN, and I definitely buy into it to a certain extent. But I definitely know a lot of programmers who don't. Or maybe some of them should be described as "people who program", because they're - Scientists who use programming to simulate or analyze their data - Mechanical or electrical engineers who use programming in their work - Accountants who can't quite make do with Excel and start doing their own programming - Small business owners who do just a little bit of process automation - And yes, dedicated programmers who work on deeply boring things like hospital infrastructure software, factory automation, and the like (Naming a few people I've interacted with personally; totally sure there are more examples.) I have a hard time imagining any of these people reading the line Programming is a culture of problem solvers, efficient and creative people, who want to make a change in the world because they realize that nowadays, software is omnipresent and that from this property alone, change CAN happen. and doing more than rolling their eyes, and turning back to the medical billing software they're working on. That doesn't mean programming can't be an awesome and artistic endeavor. It can! But it can also be a means to an unrelated end, and carried out by people who don't care one bit about code in and of itself, only about the domain-specific task which is their personal driving force. That doesn't mean they're bad at programming either: these people also go to conferences and collaborate on solutions and think deeply and well about code, but they don't attach any special meaning to it either. All that means is that there are a lot of different "programming" cultures (or "cultures that program"?). The OP describes one of them, and it's one I'm a part of much of the time. But that doesn't mean I think the others are wrong. (Incidentally, the "people who program" I described above may or may not be more likely to head home at 5, depending on their local culture.) Edit: fix formatting, slight re-phrase

eshvk 14y ago
Very true. I was bewildered by the hate for the 501 manifesto. I think of myself as a person who likes math so much that I will program to build fun stuff that lets me do more math. I have had days where I was so fully immersed into the problem that I have spent around 20 hours "hacking" (really reading papers, covering white boards with math and prototyping out stuff). I have also had days where I was in implementation mode and I usually don't spend more than 8-9 hours doing that (unless I need to ship tomorrow or something). I am puzzled at the idea that somehow me finding something more fascinating (and definitely much more harder) than programming to do on my personal time is a bad thing. As long as I spend my day productively and get stuff done, why does it really matter? As a side note, I have found that setting a hard cut off helps you to push away irrelevant chit chatting, youtube, emails and what not and focussing on the job in order to get it done. While obviously I have had ideas in the shower and that helps my next day become more productive, I don't see the need to immediately act on that and go open up my computer and write code.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  As long as I spend my day productively and get stuff done, why does it really matter? Because people with a life outside their official job start demanding things like shorter hours or overtime pay, and those cost money.
  - jon501 14y ago
    +1. there's nothing like using your GitHub account as your resume to let potential employers know you're prepared to work for free.
jondot 14y ago
I've worked in the past for Mentor Graphics. That's a very hardcore, complex, pure domain related problems in electrical engineering to implement in software. I had passion for both the domain (although not my own) and code. There is passion in everything, even in billing or accounting. I was able to drive myself to love electrical engineering, and although now I'm back in Web, I still talk about EE with a spark in my eyes.

by ajdecon 14y ago

eshvk 14y ago

Very true. I was bewildered by the hate for the 501 manifesto. I think of myself as a person who likes math so much that I will program to build fun stuff that lets me do more math. I have had days where I was so fully immersed into the problem that I have spent around 20 hours "hacking" (really reading papers, covering white boards with math and prototyping out stuff). I have also had days where I was in implementation mode and I usually don't spend more than 8-9 hours doing that (unless I need to ship tomorrow or something). I am puzzled at the idea that somehow me finding something more fascinating (and definitely much more harder) than programming to do on my personal time is a bad thing. As long as I spend my day productively and get stuff done, why does it really matter? As a side note, I have found that setting a hard cut off helps you to push away irrelevant chit chatting, youtube, emails and what not and focussing on the job in order to get it done. While obviously I have had ideas in the shower and that helps my next day become more productive, I don't see the need to immediately act on that and go open up my computer and write code.

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
As long as I spend my day productively and get stuff done, why does it really matter? Because people with a life outside their official job start demanding things like shorter hours or overtime pay, and those cost money.
- jon501 14y ago
  +1. there's nothing like using your GitHub account as your resume to let potential employers know you're prepared to work for free.

jondot 14y ago

I've worked in the past for Mentor Graphics. That's a very hardcore, complex, pure domain related problems in electrical engineering to implement in software. I had passion for both the domain (although not my own) and code. There is passion in everything, even in billing or accounting. I was able to drive myself to love electrical engineering, and although now I'm back in Web, I still talk about EE with a spark in my eyes.