5 ms·

That's one solution. However, I am not giving up meat, nor are a lot of other people. So: let's look for other ways to reduce land use.

realusername 3y ago
Well there aren't any, it's been more of a century of technological progress in agriculture and the field is very mature.
- bradley13 3y ago
  Sure there are. One example: stop subsidizing corn for ethanol. The fuel used to plant, fertilize. harvest, transport and process the corn exceeds the fuel produced.
  - realusername 3y ago
    That won't help very far when close to half of the land use is for meat.
    - slaw 3y ago
      Stopping subsidizing corn for ethanol will help a lot. [0] > U.S. farmers have planted 91.7 million acres of corn in 2019 [1] > roughly 40 percent of all corn is now used to make ethanol https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-largest-crop-2019 https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-lar... https://civileats.com/2022/02/14/how-corn-ethanol-for-biofuel-fueled-climate-change/ https://civileats.com/2022/02/14/how-corn-ethanol-for-biofue...
BobaFloutist 3y ago
Are you willing to reduce meat consumption? What if you don't have to give it up, you just have to commit to cutting down on it a bit? If enough people do that, it's still an incredibly valuable change. I'm a pescatarian* not because I think eating fish is so much better for the environment than eating meat, but because it's a little harder to eat fish and I have to think more about eating meals and in general eat more vegetarian dishes. And because going full vegetarian seemed too challenging, and I wanted to take a step to improve my impact even if I couldn't go all the way. Do I think eating vegan is ideal? Yes, but I'm not yet willing to give up dairy, and it's better to make some move than none. If you eat meat every day, could you set one day a week when you try not to? If you eat it a few times a week, could you set like two days a week when you eat meat, and try not to outside of those? You don't have to go 100% to make a real difference, and I think people get too caught up in trying to defend their decisions (because they feel attacked) when they could just make a small change at very little personal cost. *Except sometimes when my food order gets incorrectly completed, or when there's no good non-meat food, or when I just really feel like eating meat
- bradley13 3y ago
  Fair enough. In fact, I do eat less meat than I used to. However, I think calls for major changes to lifestyles are just wrong. We should all turn vegan, give up our cars, live in dense housing, etc, etc.. It's just not going to happen, and making these demands is (IMHO) counterproductive. All the more so, because these demands are often made by people flying to climate conferences in their private jets, where the menu offers wagyu bugers, brisket, steak, etc. (Yes, that was COP28). You've got to find measures that are realistic, that people will actually follow. And the politicians need to lead by example.

realusername 3y ago

Well there aren't any, it's been more of a century of technological progress in agriculture and the field is very mature.

bradley13 3y ago
Sure there are. One example: stop subsidizing corn for ethanol. The fuel used to plant, fertilize. harvest, transport and process the corn exceeds the fuel produced.
- realusername 3y ago
  That won't help very far when close to half of the land use is for meat.
  - slaw 3y ago
    Stopping subsidizing corn for ethanol will help a lot. [0] > U.S. farmers have planted 91.7 million acres of corn in 2019 [1] > roughly 40 percent of all corn is now used to make ethanol https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-largest-crop-2019 https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-lar... https://civileats.com/2022/02/14/how-corn-ethanol-for-biofuel-fueled-climate-change/ https://civileats.com/2022/02/14/how-corn-ethanol-for-biofue...

BobaFloutist 3y ago

Are you willing to reduce meat consumption? What if you don't have to give it up, you just have to commit to cutting down on it a bit? If enough people do that, it's still an incredibly valuable change. I'm a pescatarian* not because I think eating fish is so much better for the environment than eating meat, but because it's a little harder to eat fish and I have to think more about eating meals and in general eat more vegetarian dishes. And because going full vegetarian seemed too challenging, and I wanted to take a step to improve my impact even if I couldn't go all the way. Do I think eating vegan is ideal? Yes, but I'm not yet willing to give up dairy, and it's better to make some move than none. If you eat meat every day, could you set one day a week when you try not to? If you eat it a few times a week, could you set like two days a week when you eat meat, and try not to outside of those? You don't have to go 100% to make a real difference, and I think people get too caught up in trying to defend their decisions (because they feel attacked) when they could just make a small change at very little personal cost. *Except sometimes when my food order gets incorrectly completed, or when there's no good non-meat food, or when I just really feel like eating meat

bradley13 3y ago
Fair enough. In fact, I do eat less meat than I used to. However, I think calls for major changes to lifestyles are just wrong. We should all turn vegan, give up our cars, live in dense housing, etc, etc.. It's just not going to happen, and making these demands is (IMHO) counterproductive. All the more so, because these demands are often made by people flying to climate conferences in their private jets, where the menu offers wagyu bugers, brisket, steak, etc. (Yes, that was COP28). You've got to find measures that are realistic, that people will actually follow. And the politicians need to lead by example.